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Hawk last won the day on September 21 2017

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  1. Hawk

    Im in love with my first cross cousin..

    Shyam, We aren't lawyers, and don't give legal advice here in the US, where the laws vary widely. We certainly could not do so for you in India. However, that said, this is certainly NOT the first time this has came up. My understanding is that there are different marriage laws for the major religions in India. For Islam, and Christians, it is legal everywhere. There IS a HUGE bias against it, (other than within the Muslim community) but for those two, it's legal. Catholics would have a hoop or two to jump through, but it is possible. However, I'll assume you two are Hindu. There's where it gets sketchy.There is the Hindu Marriage Act. You would be well advised to get your hands on a copy. My understanding is, that parallel cousins are prohibited everywhere in India, but CROSS cousins are permitted in South India. Here is where my clue ends. Where the distinction between North and South India is, is WAY beyond my knowledge. I did wiki your town, and to my untrained eye, it does look to be well in the South half of your country. I also believe your sister have given you very sound advice. She has managed to hit my standard advice perfectly. Focus on school and getting your careers started. Perhaps find somewhere between the families to look for work. I know family, and honoring and obeying them is HUGE in India, but at some point, you really do have to make your own way. If the drama is too strong, I advise leaving. go to another Asia/Pacific country. Australia would be my first pick, but, they've tightened their immigration policy of late. Next would be New Zealand, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to get in their either. Again, all of this is if it is illegal where you are, and even if it is legal, and you are far enough south, but family threatens you. You CAN most likely expect that. LOTS of crying, lots of cajoling, lots of drama. And then, if those don't work, threats of violence to themselves or you. Better have your plan in place, and your big boy pants on.....
  2. Hawk

    Ex going for custody

    I know I'm a little late to this party, but, I concur. I will also add that if it were me, I would DARE him to bring this up in a court in Georgia. My personal experience in Georgia many years ago tells me the judges there have absolutely NO sense of humor for such nonsense in their courtrooms out of "sour grape" ex's. I personally wouldn't need a lawyer to make this smack-down happen, but, if you decide to retain one, it would be $$$ well spent. The comedic factor alone would be well worth the time, money and effort. It is NOT incest in GA, and (as mentioned, and I have no indication otherwise) it's still perfectly legal for cousins to marry there, and the look on his face when the judge explains this to him, and then admonishes him to NEVER bring such nonsense before his court again, would be priceless. Even more priceless would be the look on HIS lawyer's face, when the judge looks at him/her and says "I want to see YOU in chambers RIGHT NOW." LMAO I actually recommend cousins in other parts of the country relocate to GA if at all possible for just these reasons.....
  3. Hawk

    How to get past the scared state

    ITGeek, I know you don't want to push her. But, you have to at least try. It's been a long time since I was real active on here, so the several threads that could be pieced together telling my story are long gone to updates of the site. Even the CliffNotes version is windy. But, I'll try to not get too carried away. I have a cousin who I'm very fond of to say the least. The feeling is mutual. We love each other very much, and have always been favorite cousins. We are actually second cousins. We were born one week to the day apart, me being the elder. We'll be 55 this summer. When we were 20, we had a similar "moment", but it only lasted a couple weeks, and she got scared. Sound familiar? And, at the time, only her Mom, and her best friend and her husband, a good friend of mine, knew anything was going on. My Mom found out immediately afterwards, when Cuz got scared and we backed off. Our Moms, first cousins, would have been fine with it. Her Dad would have been fine with it, and my Dad wouldn't have minded either way. But, she had bought into the old taboos, and was worried about what some of her other friends might say, and what mine might say. I would have straightened my friends out in pretty short order. Some of her girlfriends though, lets just say they were some rough and tumble girls. She was the wallflower of the bunch. I would have told them to kiss it too, but, I could see it being a problem if some of them got smart with me. Plus, there was no internet as such, more less a site like this with so much good and accurate information. Anywho, she got scared, I didn't want to push her, and we let the whole thing be quite awkward for DECADES. Probably about 8 years ago now, I found this site, and eventually became involved. About 7 years ago, a few months after I joined, we got back in contact, had an occasion to speak candidly, and aired it all out. We're agreed that way too much water has passed beneath the bridge to go back at this late date, to relive our youth. Plus, at the time, I was married, and she still has the same long term BF. We're also agreed we have no stomach for cheating with each other, and even though I'm divorced, I still won't cross the line with her. At any rate, the night we aired it all out, I already knew all the facts, having been here a while. I was telling her the laws, the actual relation, (she didn't get the whole 'once removed' thing either, and thought we were THIRD cousins.....LOL) and the genetics, religious aspects.... the whole nine yards. On occasion, I would see her look at me funny, like she didn't believe me, or didn't believe I knew as much as I did. I always assumed she would be extremely upset if she knew I was here, but, I took a chance. I told her at one point to log on, and come here. So, she did, I showed her the info pages, and the conversation continued. It eventually got deep enough, I told her "Log back on, and go back to that site." She did, and I said "You're probably going to kill me, but, click on where it says 'Forum'. " She did. I had posted recently, so, I said "See where it says 'Hawk'?" She said "Yyyyeeeaaaahhhh....." I said "That's me......" I then told her how I found this place, and had been intrigued, and seeing as how our little moment hadn't turned out like I would have had it, I stuck around to advise other young members on how to not make some of the same mistakes, and general mistakes I'd/we'd made. I told her what my "broken record speech to young members was." She didn't say a word, but got misty eyed, and nodded quietly. (I had always known she would agree with what I was advising) So, we aired it all out, are still in some contact, and face time is nowhere near as awkward as it was for all those years. In fact, I'll probably see her this weekend, and may spend the night up there, since she's about 3 hours or so away from home now for work. Not sure, we just talked briefly. We'll see. I would say we'll at least get together for an adult beverage or two. All that said, I was not able to convince her to join and give me a hand with the advice. She's a very private person, with no real inkling to do so, and that's fine, I still don't push her. BUT, I CAN assure you that she would have a nice long talk with your cousin if she could. Y'all being in your 40's, and, (I'll assume) both available, I have no doubt what she would say. She would tell her that if she has a chance to be happy with you, she'd damn well better take it. Life is very short. I was maybe a little older than you when I showed up here, and it seems like only yesterday, but it's getting closer to 8 years now. A lot has happened. For me, a lot has changed. Much of it came out of the blue at me last year. I WAS happy, but that all went away. I'm not as jaded as I was immediately after my divorce in 2013, but, I'm much more guarded with my heart. I won't let it be broken again. We have so few chances at happiness, I'd hate to see you two walk away from one. When the "what if's" come, and they will, you want to be sure you did everything you could have to convince her. You may not be able to convince her, but you'll know you tried, and didn't just let her walk. The stigma is still so strong in mine, that I'm not totally convinced if she was available, she'd go for it even now. BUT, I can assure you, YOU have MUCH more information now than I did in 1983, to at least TRY to convince her. She may not be able to wrap her head around it, but, if you don't put some effort into trying, I can guarantee she's gone. You may not want to push, and you can't BE pushy, but you'd best at least push the envelope. I won't tell you to beg, but it does behoove you to do everything you can to get her here to this site, and show her all the facts. Feel free to show her this thread, and the replies, including this one. This should, if at all possible, be done in person, quietly, with only the two of you there, where you can both speak candidly. It's time to test the waters. Don't be scared. When you think you're in over your head, put your foot down. You'll find it's not as deep as you thought it was.......js
  4. I wish we still had chat. I'd get quarter and Nat in there and we'd chat a bit.... ;)


    1. quarter25


      That is a bummer, would love to chat with you Hawk ?

    2. quarter25


      And Nat as well of course ??

  5. Jack001, quarter here has read my mind. It's an example of what we rednecks call "Uncle's Brother's Sister's Kids and them...." LOL It sounds as though, (unless your uncle's wife is actually a cousin of him and your Dad) that there is NO blood relation, and legally, anywhere in the world, you would be able to pursue this......
  6. Somebody rang? Young Casey, Since my lamp was rubbed, I'll pop in. I'll not be "snippy", and I'll try to stay focused, and not go off on a tangent. I generally DO get windy, and tangents abound, but, I'll try to focus, even though I have a LOT going on IRL. Ok. Here goes. If you'll notice my profile, I'm the resident junk yard dog. I have that moniker for several reasons. Mostly because I lay around quietly, but bite when I feel like it. And, I really have no qualms left. I'm an equal opportunity biter, and swing a mean banhammer. But, relax, you're not there. Yet. I will agree that you write well for your age. Reminds me of the cat in the mirror when I was your age, what I remember of those days. I hope this isn't too much of a tangent, but, you asked who the hell I am, and now you know. Now, to the mention of my "good advice", especially to younger members. I like to say I'm not so good at telling people what to do, but, at my age, I CAN assure you, I'm getting pretty damn good at what NOT to do. In my current predicament, I would advise you to NEVER get in ANY kind of relationship. EVER. MGTOW, and all of that. But, that's not why you're here, and, I doubt you'd listen till your my age and have your own PhD in Hard Knocks. So, with that in mind, let's delve, shall we? I certainly don't want to put anyone down, (and the girls may pummel me, won't be the first time) but, from your adequate description in your OP, your cuz seems to be at the very least possibly the "clingy" type. Nothing wrong with that, and totally to be expected at your ages. And, as you rightly note, at your ages, the hormones are a raging. Nothing wrong with that, and also totally expected. How the two of you deal with it at this point WILL have long term consequences. That has been noted, and fact. If family should find out at this stage that there are shenanigans, you two WILL be separated and watched like hawks. (no pun intended) That, even IF they would be more or less fine with it, in say another 5 to 10 years. Am I so old and fuddy duddy to think there WON'T be repeat performances, and they will probably go further? No. I AM a realist, and know where these things lead once they've started, without extreme caution and aforethought. That's what I'll try to impress upon you. You seem bright enough to do the things you need to do (and NOT do) at this point, so, I'll try to spout a few protips for you. 1) Focus on school. Get, or keep the grades up. If you have any inkling this is something you may wish to pursue, you're going to have to be smart, and get smarter. You did well by at the very first here, ending up here, and getting the facts. The facts are the facts, and won't change regardless of others' opinions of them. 2) Put this all on hold. You've mentioned you're going to put a close to it, and, you can certainly do that too. But, don't do it because it's "incest". It isn't, at least historically. Legally, in some places, yes. That doesn't make it so either, it just means laws have been passed without much thought. Not at all unusual either, happens every day. But, for the time being, think clearly, and TRY to get her to do the same. Let her know that nobody knows what the future holds, but, it there's going to be a chance of a future together, it can't be sabotaged now. 3) Focus on building the friendship. Get to know her intimately other than physically intimately. You two may find that you aren't as compatible as you may think now. Or, you may come to realize you ARE extremely compatible. These things are things to know BEFORE stepping off in the deep end and over your heads. In a few years (which will seem to DRAG ON AND ON) you will have a much better idea if this is somewhere you want to go. I always recommend being 20 years old at the least, and my personal preference is 22ish. Again, from personal experience I don't have time or space to go into here in this reply. As you can see, it's already getting windy. LOL 4) IF, in the future, situations arise (no erection pun intended, although that DOES go with it) and it's something you want to do, and BOTH of you are on the same page, then go for it, and don't let ANYBODY talk you out of it. Even yourself.........
  7. Hawk

    General advice

    Itsamemario, That's not lengthy, my standard reply to young members like yourself is usually VERY lengthy. But, for now, I don't have time to camp out on here to do it. The TL/DR version is : 1) Focus on school. If there's ever going to be a chance of things happening in the future, you'd best get smart. Get or keep the grades up. 2) Put it all on the back burner. You're WAY too young to face the drama you certainly would at this early stage. 3) You want to get close, like you were. Very good idea, but, sometimes not so easily done. Do your best, but don't overthink or overdo it. You have plenty of time. 4) After putting this all on hold, except for doing the subtle little things to get closer, by the time she's 18, and you're 21 or so, you can step it up a little. Even in the meantime, if it seems as though you've gotten closer, you can use the old "tried and true" line of "If you weren't my cousin, _____________". Fill in the blank with whatever fits at the moment, like "you'd be the perfect GF for me", "I'd ask you to go out/be my GF", or some such. This is WAY out in front of where you are at the moment though, unless SHE comes out with something similar." 5) If things do begin to progress, as I've mentioned, you HAVE to keep it on the back burner and down low until BOTH of you are of age. I personally recommend 20 to 22 years old or so. I know it sounds like forever, but it really does behoove you to wait. If you move too soon, and family finds out about it, they will most likely keep you separated. And, that will most likely ruin any chance there is in the future. You HAVE to get an education, get a job, and get out on your own before you get real carried away. You know, your roof, your rules. You also have to be sure legally you aren't going to get in a bind. As a mod, I can have a little peek, so, allow me..... Ok. Where you are, (provided the index is correct, and you're not running a proxy) it is perfectly legal. And, I'm not totally sure about the laws there, but, the age of consent is probably lower than most places. Not a factor in my advice. I still say wait till you're in your 20's. Once you are, you'll find it easier to broach the subject, have a better chance of a positive response, and outcome. Do take your time, and keep in touch. We'll do our best to walk you through it as you go......
  8. Hawk

    Going to Jail?

    This sounds remarkably familiar, other than it was WI instead of MI........
  9. Hawk


    Alex, The standard disclaimer first, and then we'll see if we can parse this out. We are not lawyers, and do not give legal advice. Now that we have that out of the way, let's try to determine exactly what the language says. In the statute, it says "or cousins of the first degree". I would need LadyC or one of the others to correct me if I'm wrong, but, I believe 1C1R's would be considered further than 1st degree. I am not sure at all on the "degree" thing. I did look up all the statutes for the States which in one way or another prohibit cousins, and there was some updating that occurred at that time, a little over a year ago. There is a list of States where 1C1R's are allowed, but, I don't have time to see if Illinois is on it at the moment. All of that said, being in Illinois myself, I'll tell you what I would recommend. LEAVE. I'm hoping I'm going to get a call for work out of this screwed up State today. I recommend Georgia, others will recommend other States like Florida. I'm also getting pretty partial to Tennessee, having traveled there extensively last year for work and pleasure. Plus, TN and FL have no state income tax, which, unless you've been under a rock, you will know has just went up 32% here in Illinois. I personally am going to try to make my money at a less hostile rate. I have a home which is paid off, and I have no intention of selling, and this will always be "home." But, as for the $$$, it's elsewhere brother.....js. Last one out, turn off the lights..........LOL p.s. Upon taking the time, IT WOULD APPEAR that 1C1R's ARE allowed in Illinois. Look on the State laws page: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states As you scroll down, you will see a section showing first cousins (blue) and 1C1R's (pinkish) prohibited. You will note Illinois in the "blue" but not the "pink". Standard disclaimer still applies, as does my further advice.......
  10. Hawk

    15 years

    NoSpine, It's WAY beyond time you stopped hiding. You two are WAY past an age to be told what you can and cannot do by family. You have your own place. You make your own rules. You don't say where you are, and I shan't either. You've been hiding, and you are anonymous here. But, as a mod, I can peek, and did. If my index is correct, and you're not running a proxy, where you are, it is perfectly legal for the two of you to marry. Look around here : https://www.cousincouples.com/ Click the menu button. Get up to speed on the laws, genetics, and any possible religious arguments you may need to win. I have a sneaking suspicion the family is not going to absolutely loose touch after all these years of knowing there's something going on. It may actually come as a relief that THEY no longer have to tip-toe around the subject either......js
  11. Laraeaf, When the topic of the stigma comes up, get him in here. He sounds like a very intelligent young man, and will soak up the facts of the matter rather easily....
  12. Laraeaf, I don't necessarily despise children, but, they do get on my nerves enough that I never had any!!! My Mom knew her chances of getting grandchildren out of me was very slim long before I had my first girlfriend. However, this WOULD have been a problem with Cuz. She has two, and them and the grandchildren now are her greatest joy. She would have wanted a couple, and I would have resisted. It would have been quite the hurdle to jump. It sounds like Elliot could be, (at least for now) on the same page with you with regards to children. And, even with the mothers not talking unless it's in person, they will still see (probably already have, hence their comments) the chemistry between the two of you, and I think will come to terms with it. Do pop in if you would like to share or need further advice...
  13. Hawk

    Questioning the Past

    Lynn, That right thar^^^^. Can you see why we always encourage our young members to wait until they are 18. How he didn't go to jail, even if YOU did initiate the deal, I'll never know. But, had you waited until 20, like you are now, and him at 32/33, do you see how that sounds so much more palatable? My preference is generally 22 or older, for the same reasons. You're in this quandary because you didn't wait. If it had never happened, at 20, would you do it now? If you get another 2 years under your belt, would you do it then?
  14. Laraeaf, Don't worry about editing your posts. Plus, I'm reasonably sure you'd have to be a member and logged in to edit anyhow. You're anonymous enough here. She may not have been here yet, but, maybe she has. It doesn't really matter, because even without it, the mothers are obviously talking. I had a feeling that was going on. Believe me when I tell you that Elliot is a much better behaved and settled individual than I was at that age. (I resembled the description of 'idiot' you gave, and still do on occasion....LOL I do try to not get stupid though...) He sounds busy, but still needs the interaction, so, you may as well provide your share of it to the extent you can. Don't worry about the conversation getting to a point that should be better said in person. If it does, just say "Yeah, I really want to talk to you about this, but I'd really rather be with you when we do." I have a feeling that if you play this right, your mothers will begin subtly nudging the two of you toward each other. If he's mature enough to be in the position you describe, he's mature enough to start a relationship with a 24 year old, provided you're both willing to get on the same page, and go all in. Look for his mother to be subtly nudging him that way. I have a feeling she's seeing "All work/studies, no play (to speak of)" making Elliot a dull boy, as the saying goes. Not that Elliot is dull, just that it's a busy, yet perhaps boring or monotonous life he's leading at the moment. And, I can beyond all doubt assure you both of your mothers are already wondering when there are going to be grandchildren. WAY out in front of where the two of you are, but, nowhere near out too far in front of where they are thinking. His Mom may think 22 is yet a bit young, (and I would tend to agree there), but she's already thinking about it. You being 24, there's absolutely no doubt your mother is thinking about it. Their thought process will go something along the lines of "Yeah, she's a couple years older, but he's a good boy, she's a good girl, she'll bring him along...." Now, if this does progress like I see it, the subject of genetics is going to pop up rather early on. I'd be willing to bet that's their only reservation at this point, or they would have already been more bold in their statements their slipping in. Let's get that part out to you now. If you go to the genetics page, you will find that second cousins share only very slightly more DNA than any random couple. There are NO known increased risks to the offspring on second cousins because of their relation. Now, that said, the normal issues that could be a concern with random couples would come into play. For instance. There's an increased instance of A-fib in mine and Cuz's shared side. Our Mom's just lost another first cousin to a myriad of problems, with A-fib being one of the underlying factors. His dad (our grandpas' youngest brother) had it. My grandpa had it. I have it. My Mom has it, and at least one of my brothers has it. At the same time, Cuz doesn't have it, her sister doesn't, her Mom doesn't, and, so far as we know, her Grandpa didn't have it. So, even though the tendency is there, it would have still been a crap shoot as to whether any offspring of ours would have had it. And the same goes for diabetes, cancer, or, who knows, ingrown toenails, anything that could be an inherited trait. Even in totally unrelated couples, if the tendency is strong enough on one or both sides, there's a chance said issues could pop up. But, the rarer and more serious issues sighted between first cousins does not apply to second cousins, and, has been exaggerated to the point of being a reason to prohibit first cousins from marrying in the places it is prohibited. And, unreasonably so. The chances are about the same of those same sort of issues popping up in women who get pregnant over the age of 38 or so. You will NEVER see any push to prohibit a 38 year old or beyond (at least up to late 40's) from getting pregnant. The gal I'm seeing had her son when she was 38. The boy is perfectly fine, quite smart, and already at 12 taller than her, and she's at least 5'8" or 5'9". Suffice it to say he's a healthy boy. There is absolutely no genetic reason the two of you could not marry, and have anywhere from one to a house full of children. DO NOT listen to the first iota of nonsense to the contrary. Again, WAY out in front of where you two are, but something very good to know up front, because it's going to be one of the first issues to come up.
  15. Laraeaf, Yeah, she's my favorite cousin, and, I've still got fairly strong feelings for her, and they're shared. We were born a week to the day apart, and once we were old enough to realize that, we've always been "best/favorite" cousins. For a time when we were young, we lived across the street from each other, and were really more like siblings than second cousins. It was all strictly platonic, and I actually had the crush on her (4 yrs) older sister....LOL Anyhow, through a series of events when we were 20, we hung out and things took a change. Things got very intense, very quickly. After a couple weeks, she get scared of what people would say, and, her own belief of the stigma, and we walked away from it. As I said, our Mom's would have been fine with it. They're first cousins. Their fathers, our grandfathers, were brothers. Hers had passed, and mine passed (looking back now, doing the math) a little over a month after our little "moment", and he never knew. At the time, only her Mom knew. I mean, we come in all rumpled up, having obviously just crawled out of my bed, and it was pretty plain SOMETHING was going on. Her Mom was speechless, (no mean feat, mind you, LOL) but got a huge grin, and never mentioned the "elephant in the room". But, at any rate, she got nervous, I didn't want to push her, and we backed away from it. It did make reunions very awkward for nearly 30 years. Probably 6 or 7 years ago now, we reconnected, aired it all out, agreed much too much water had passed beneath the bridge to go back. Plus, I was married, she has a long term BF, and neither of us have any stomach for cheating. I'm divorced now, and, certain members of the family would actually be thrilled if I were to get her away from her BF, but, she likes him, and just like a cousin relationship, it's not the rest of the family's business, nor MY place to get between them. And, as I mentioned, I'm in no real mood for a relationship of the nature required to be with her. IF her and the BF were to split, and IF I were still no further attached to one girl I'm hanging with, I MIGHT would consider VERY SLOWLY (unlike our first outing) testing the waters again. I really don't see that happening though. It would be another example of our terrible timing as it has always been, where one of us was not available when the other one was. I see myself hanging with this gal I'm seeing, and slowly coming out of my jaded state. My longer story on the subject has been lost to site upgrades over the years, but, she's one of two girls I was bouncing between before my cousin and I had our moment. When that became a trainwreck, is when the opportunity for me and Cuz to be together arose. So, me and this gal have met, shes done very well for herself, and is as keen to be with me as she was when we were kids. I see me letting down the wall, and letting her in. We have loved each other for 30 some years now, and did remain friends that whole time, with each other and our respective families. Her family is like a second family anyhow, so that part of it is the easy part. I just have to wrap my head around letting down the walls and doing another relationship. After the last year and a half, it really is easier said than done. But, I'm starting to warm to the idea. She's seen this site, knows some of the history with cuz, and being a highly trained medical professional, knows the facts, and would be fine with my participation here, although I must say, I don't see it being anywhere near as active as it once was. With the work that I do, and the travel it is looking like it will entail from here on out, I'll be hard pressed to have the time to do so. With your mother already having discussed this with his mother, I would be willing to bet the drama would not be anywhere near what either of you think it would be. THEY are already thinking the "If you weren't cousins" line, and running scenarios through their heads. It would not surprise me in the least if one or both of them don't look into it, and possibly even stumble across this site. Them actually changing their preconceived notions could take a while, but if needs be, that's where and when you present the facts here to them. As with me and mine, her Mom knew from the visual, and, shortly after we walked away from it, I told my Mom "Don't be surprised if one of these days me and Cuz become an item". She said "As long as you treat her good and you make each other happy, I'll be happy for you". So, yeah, the Mom's will have a tendency to want to see their children happy, and, if they're seeing them make each other happy platonicly, the natural progression would not come as a shock. Just take your time, and let the visual of you two interacting set in. And DON'T rush to present them the visual me and mine did to her Mom...LMAO Do be sure your clothes are on right side out, and brush your hair.......