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Everything posted by Hawk

  1. As far as full marriage equality among consenting adults, some of it is going to be outside my comfort zone, I won't lie. But again, if there is a God, and I believe there is a God, then it's going to be quite a bit over my pay grade to be judging. If there is, I'm sure I'll have enough of my own shenanigans to answer for to be too busy worrying about anybody else. Unless it DOES get into my pay grade with some progeny I'm supporting, when the science does generally fall outside virtually everyone's comfort zone, then yeah, that I'll have a major issue with. The adult siblings is testing the edge. I have seen that as well, I honestly believe. There was an elderly couple who lived across the street when we were growing up, and I'm pretty sure they were still there when Cuz and them moved a couple doors up from them. They were siblings. Neither had ever married. They had lived together as long as I knew them, and apparently for quite some time before that, possibly forever. Being of our grandparents' generation, there was never any hint of anything funny going on. No PDA's for sure. But, there were very few of those out of that generation anyhow. Nobody certainly EVER mentioned any sort of suspicions they may have had. I did find the whole thing odd though, and do believe there was just a LITTLE more going on than met the eye. Could anybody prove it, no. They kept up appearances enough that nobody wanted to think about it I suppose. She would berate him mildly on occasion, like a wife of that generation, and he'd giggle and say "Aww, go on back in the house." If NOT a couple, they were certainly a pair. LMAO Then, there's the fact that Cuz and I, (and her Sis and my brothers) were very close as kids, once they moved here. And we're 2nd cousins. But, for several years, we spent enough time together we considered each other "practical" siblings. We consider them the sisters we never had, and they consider us the brothers they never had to this day. My Mom loves those girls like daughters, and her Mom loves us like she would her own sons. I guess that's why it was too hard for Cuz to try to wrap her head around. Once we were in the moment, it was so intense, we didn't really think about it. But when we did take a good (sober, LOL) look around after the better part of two weeks, she couldn't fully wrap her head around it. Back then, with no information to go on, we went on the feelings, and the feelings were too much. I would have went for it, but I didn't want to push her out of HER comfort zone, so, we walked away. I do certainly understand how one thing leads to another, and in short order, you're in that deep with someone that close. It wasn't something we planned, and we're agreed, it isn't something we regret. We're also agreed that it won't be repeated. One of the moral absolutes we do agree on is not cheating on our SO's with each other.
  2. Since we've seen this, I am going to redact a couple things in my post, before the spiders find it, and we perhaps have an influx such as we've had before. I may have to modify your quote as well strawberry, if it doesn't change with my actions. I became a mod here as a sort of junkyard dog, eating spam and banhammering trolls. I'd be remiss if I let stand more work for myself..... BRB
  3. strawberrymilk, As a mod, I'll pipe in as well. Members cannot see it, but search engine spiders are crawling all over this place all the time. As I type this, there are 2 Google spiders, 2 Yahoo spiders, and 14 Baidu spiders in here. The difference in the actual facts and what will pop up on a Google search is about the same as Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica. Actually, Wikipedia is probably more accurate factually than Google, and certainly more factual than anything I've ever seen on Yahoo Answers. With the right search terms though, and all the spiders, Google does tend to lead one here rather quickly. I found this place from the old &T (TOTSE) board. There was a young guy who started a thread in the "Love & Relationships" category, stating that he had a thing for his cousin. As you can imagine, he was set upon with several replies to the effect of your post in this thread, as well as being thrashed about the head and shoulders by others who were not so nice, who's "education" on the topic came from their Grandma, Yahoo, and the "infant" at the time, Google. Fortunately for him, there were several extremely intelligent individuals on that board, and in rather short order, they came in with links to GSA, here, and IIRC, a link to one of the studies noted on the "Genetics" page in the main page menu here. At the time, before :insert other 'dangerous' website: and some of the others we have now, that board was considered to be very close to the top of the list of, if not THE "most dangerous" websites on the web. The "Information" thread had absolute TONNAGE of information on every topic imaginable. Most of it from very reliable sources, linked and footnoted, and much of it from various university databases. There was everything from how to change a diaper to how to build a bomb. At any rate, I meandered in here off and on for several months lurking before I joined, as it was relative (no pun intended) to my interests. I like to think that at least sober, I'm a reasonably smart guy. I did get quite the education though when I found myself looking through the facts on the main page of this site. I had always, like you, ass-u-me-d all the "old wives tales" of kids with extra toes and such were factual. Hell, Grandma told me. She wouldn't lie would she? Well, no. She just didn't have the facts. It certainly didn't help that there were a brother and sister here in this town who were quite severely mentally, how can I put this nicely,,,,,, not all there. I never had any interaction with the sister, as she never left the house so far as I know, but the brother was well known and much loved in town for his work ethic and fanatical love of sports. So, one time I ask my Mom "Mom, what exactly is _____'s problem?" She said "Well, it just happens he's that way because his Mom and Dad are cousins." OK, but, I still don't know exactly what his problem was, or if it was even related (again, no pun) to his parents being cousins. It was everyone's assumption at the time, so, that's what we were told. Looking at the list of conditions that are related to cousins being couples, I don't immediately see one as jumping out to fit his "symptoms", and rather think it was something more in the line of autism or some such, and it just so happened to run in the line, and THEREFORE, showed up in them as a result, such as would be the case with two unrelated people who both happened to have such a tendency in each of their lines. And again, I'm not totally sure, because no one had a straight answer. Who ever heard of autism back then either? I hadn't. And, the jury is certainly still out on just exactly what does cause autism. Looking back though, he certainly seemed to be on the spectrum. Physically, he was pretty much normal, and he seemed "slower" than he was, until you got to know him. He could be pretty perceptive. He knew if someone was pulling his chain, and would play along just long enough to hand it back to them. But, 45 years ago, there was nowhere near the research that has been done since, and certainly no Google, Yahoo, or probably even beginnings of an internet. So, the old assumptions held. As you have seen by a cursory search, to a great degree, they still do. But, now, this site is here on the net, and it's main purpose is to educate. Feel free to take advantage of the information freely disseminated here. I'm glad I did, and educated myself. Too bad this wasn't here sooner, but, it is now.... Oh, and now, there's 3 Google spiders, 1 Yahoo, and 10 Baidu.
  4. Hawk

    I new here

    yukon2, As Romalee noted, you didn't mention where you are, and, at your ages, it isn't QUITE as much of an issue. As a mod, I can, (and did) have a little peek. Provided the index is correct, you are in one of what we call " the yellow States". https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states The age varies, as do the conditions that prompt "yellow" status, but, as a rule, it means first cousins can't marry UNTIL they reach a certain age, somewhere between 50 and 65. In the State you are showing as being in, ( big wave, same one as I'm in, :grin: ) the age is 50. I know this is WAY out in front of where you are in this deal, BUT, with you just now finding out the facts and perhaps breaking a few of your own long held stereotypes, you may as well know the legalities should this progress to such a point as you envision. First cousins having a sexual relationship is NOT considered criminal incest here. Oddly enough, one State where it IS considered criminal incest happens to be Wisconsin, which I consider to be about the WORST about it. But, if you clicked that link, you will note that it is also a "yellow" State, and after the female reaches 55 yrs of age, it is legal for first cousins to marry. Go figure. Gotta love a bunch of lawyers setting around thinking these things up, LOL. Anyhow, enough of the legalities. You're good to go on that front. Now, as to how I see your situation. I'm not quite as old as you, but I'm in my 50's and definitely nipping at your heels. I'm not with my cousin, nor shall I ever be, but, we're good with it. I have a GF that I can only hope shall remain my partner going forward, and she has a long term BF. We have no stomach for cheating and the drama that comes with it. We had our moment, and didn't go for it. Way too much water has passed beneath the bridge to go back now, where we are in our lives. That said, IF we were neither attached, I could see us in some sort of relationship. Would it be sexual? Yeah, probably, at some point, and on occasions. We've met. We do have a history, all be it brief, as to that aspect of it. At our age now, we'd be very hard pressed indeed to copy our "vigor" shall we say, of when we were 20, LOL. But, at our age, that seems fairly shallow to focus on, and the companionship would be every bit as rewarding. In as much as you have given us, I get the impression that's about where you two are, and, at least on your side, you would like to add another aspect to the "togetherness". Perfectly understandable, perfectly legal, and perfectly logical. Being my elder by a few years, I'm sure I need not tell you, none of us are getting any younger. However, it may not be a bad idea to remind her of that. I have a feeling that this plays into a part of what makes the age related "yellow" factor in these several States that have these age provisions. I'm sure the principal reason is the overblown assumption of the risks to any offspring of cousin couples, but, when that factor is removed, there is no logical reason left to prevent such relationships. Many of these lawmakers being in our demographic, most likely realize as we age, a relationship based on mutual love, respect, and companionship is every bit as important as the physical aspects that seem to inevitably play a disproportionate role when we are younger. I also think they realize there is sometimes a desire to "consolidate" to some degree any family wealth there may be, to where more acquired family wealth stays in the family as older members pass. Throughout history, and continuing today, where cousin couples are allowed, permitted, and even desired, that is one of the major considerations. We got away from the practice here in the U.S. back in the mid-1800s, for a myriad of reasons, but up to that point, that was a major consideration here. As Roma said, the old "If you weren't my cousin, ______" line is pretty hard to beat in breaking the ice. Being you ages though, I'd be tempted to modify it. I would modify it to something like " Cousins aside, I could see myself spending the rest of my life like this" on one of your enjoyable times together, whether out and about, or over coffee, if that's how you spend time. You would know the time. It plants the seed, tests the water, and isn't quite so forward as saying " Cousins aside, I could see myself spending the rest of my life with you." You go into that, or back out, depending on her response. If she says "Yeah, I've thought of that", you step it up with some facts. If she says "Yeah, but we ARE cousins", you back it off, but don't run away from it. You're plenty old enough to say something to the effect of "Yeah, but at our age, it's perfectly legal, and at my age, I don't really care what people think so much. Their opinion isn't relative to my happiness actually." Unless she just totally has a meltdown, (which I doubt) the first thing she's going to want to know is how you know it's legal. At that point, you may as well spill the beans, ask her to at least hear you out, and bring her to that link I gave you. From there, you show her the rest of the facts on the main page. Tell her that recently you've began to see her in a somewhat different light, thought you were crazy, so, you looked into it, and this is what you found. If it's beyond her comfort zone, that's fine, but you thought there was the possibility she might at least feel a little bit the same, and thought she should know how you felt, just in case she does feel the same. If she's still totally against the thought, you're a big boy, you can handle it. But, as we always mention, don't be surprised if at some point she doesn't come back and say "You know yukon, I've been thinking, and ......" Nothing ventured, nothing gained, so you may as well wade on off in it my man.... Good Luck, and let us know how it goes, if you will.
  5. luckysgirl, Ok, NOW I get it. I misread the "second cousins" part, and thought you said you thought you two are second cousins. I knew by what you had given, that wasn't the relation. I see now with your chart that there is an, all be it distant, blood relation. So, your Aunt was married to her 1st cousin once removed. If you know the details, was there any family drama when that happened? With the two of you yet another generation down the line, I would hope there would not be any in your case. And, even though you didn't mention it, if they had kids, they would still be first cousins to both you AND your bf/cousin. That part I did manage to figure out, LOL.
  6. luckysgirl, You haven't given us quite enough information to figure it out, M'Dear. I am confident, from what you have given us, that you are not second cousins. You could be anything from no blood relation at all, to possibly first cousins. (which I do NOT think is the case, if I'm wrapping my head around this correctly) I think you two are probably not actually any blood relation at all, and the only connection is through this marriage. You are kin by blood to your aunt, obviously. As is he to his uncle. Now, if these two had children, THEY would be both you and your bf's cousins, but, you two would not be any blood relation to each other. So, in effect, your bf is the cousin of your cousin(s), (if they did have kids) but not YOUR cousin. As long as your Aunt isn't also HIS Aunt, by blood, and was only his Aunt for so long as she was married to his Uncle, and because of the marriage, and the same applies to you with regards to his Uncle not being your Uncle by any blood relation, and was only your Uncle for the duration of the marriage, and because of it, then NO, the two of you are not actually any blood relation to each other. The only time I could see it getting overly awkward would be if you two decide to get married, and his Uncle and your Aunt were to be on the guest list, and not be able to enjoy the occasion without THEIR drama spilling into it. Let us know if I've wrapped my head around this correctly, give us more information if I've not, and maybe me or some of the others here can figure it out.
  7. Closetomydream, You know, once you're in and settled, and in the routine, you'll have to come here and change your user name to Livinthedream.....LOL
  8. dimpy23, They are only in the Midwest in the US. Even though there are 3 of them in Illinois, and I'm in Illinois, the closest one to me would probably be the one in Indianapolis Indiana. I've been wanting to go for some time now. I would have liked to have gone over the Christmas break, but, we just had too much going on. Maybe, if I get the job I've put in for, Spring Break could be a possibility.
  9. Maybe, I'd have to check. Are you in Indiana? If you are, then my look-up is wrong. Wouldn't be the first time, and it's usually pretty good, but, it certainly isn't showing you in Indiana. I went to my file that has more extensive content than is listed in the pop-up on the States page. As far as "skirting" the law in Indiana, no, you can't intentionally skirt the law by going to another State where it's legal, get married, then come back. The only way to legally "skirt" the law in Indiana is to full establish residency elsewhere, (I'm going to say they are going to want to see somewhere between 6 months and a years' proof/documentation of such) THEN, return to Indiana. I don't think this applies to you, but for informational purposes, if someone lives in a "green" State, has a career change/move, is legally married in said "green" State, and moves to Indiana, then, yes, Indiana will recognize that marriage. So long as you are a resident in a jurisdiction where it's legal, and are legally married there, Indiana recognizes it. There are some caveats in the statute with corresponding numbers for other statutes, and, since I didn't go look those up too, there could be other exemptions. If you get to that point, let me know, and I will go dig it up, give you the statutes. We are NOT lawyers, and don't give legal advise, but, we can give you the statutes, and show you what they say. Which brings me to..... While I'm here, I'm going to agree with LadyC too. Either he mans' up, or you walk. Unless he's going to get on the bus, all of this worrying is for nothing. If he's so inclined, and you can get him here, bring him here and show him around. If he won't hear you out, and at least offer to take a look at the facts, then yeah, walk. Playing this little game y'all have going is going to end up with you for sure, and probably both of you, hurt, in the end.
  10. Marla, Well, you're probably stuck then. No more neeked shenanigans where you are either. I really don't want to see you run afoul of the law, M'Dear. He's (well, both of you are) plenty old enough to make your own decisions, but if relocating is not an option, the decision is made for you....
  11. Marla, See our replies to you in your other thread, but, it sounds like it may not come to that anyhow. I guess it depends on how old you two are. If you're both of age, in the end, it doesn't really matter what family says about it, and your major obstacle where you are is the law. And, the need for him to man up, and stand up for you. If he's of age, but still under say, 25 yrs old or so, I can KINDA understand his nervousness, especially if the two of you are still under parents roofs, and they would disagree. You need to be out on your own, and independent first. If you have to move out, it may as well be out of State. But, he has to be willing. Since you would have to move anyhow, that fact alone COULD persuade him to go for it. One of the first inclinations of couples in your situation is to move far enough away that nobody knows you, and you don't have to put up with daily drama out of family. Something to consider, as it's your only LEGAL option anyhow. Why not bring him here, set him down for a good going-over of the facts on this: https://www.cousincouples.com/ page, and see if he can get up to speed? He can either post with you, or on his own, here in the forum, and we'll try to hold your hands and walk you through what you need to do. That's why we're here, after all....
  12. Hawk


    Marla, You didn't mention where you are, (and DON'T) but, as a mod I can have a little peek. So, where my look-up is showing you, if it is correct, then, no, you can't. You would have to locate to a State where it is legal. If you are first cousins, and where I'm showing you as being, you do not want to have a physical relationship either. It's considered a felony. You're not in what I consider the worst State, but, probably #2 on the list. If you have extremely deep pockets, and would spoil for the fight, you could probably get the law overturned. It is the most recent one to have been enacted, and, so far as I know, has never been challenged. I have a feeling, by the way it was done, it would only take a reasonably competent lawyer to prevail. But, in my book, it's drama you don't need. If you need a romantic weekend, just go to any number of neighboring States where marriage may or may not be legal, but physical relations are not a felony. That said, IF you DO locate to a state where it's legal, then, you will have to get a dispensation from the area diocese. No big problem, it shouldn't be an issue, but it will probably cost you a nominal "donation" to the diocese. From what I understand, it isn't going to break the bank. The Church will marry first cousins with this dispensation, provided it's legal in the jurisdiction where the marriage is to be solemnized. Here's where you find out which States allow it, (in green) and which allow it under certain conditions (yellow), and which don't(red). https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states Not all of the red States consider it criminal incest either. I think, but I'm not positive, the red States which DO consider it a felony now have that noted, and the statutes copied if you click on that State and get the pop up box with statutes. While I'm personally partial to Georgia, I hear Florida is real nice about this time of year. Best of luck to the two of you....
  13. Hawk

    Doctor, doctor

    Actually, I don't think I can do that, so, I'll quote you, right before I smack you, so others of your ilk can see you were here, but weren't able to stay. c'est la vie
  14. Hawk

    Doctor, doctor

    Yes you are johnstone, and now you get the banhammer, right after I take your BS spam link out of your post. BAM. HAHAHA
  15. dimpy23, You'll be looking for something like this... http://www.sybaris.com/
  16. AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH Too late. I don't type fast enough, LOL
  17. Probably because it is a topic which is on the mind of a good percentage of the folks who find their way here. Which goes to your point as well, Roma. It may be old, but, at almost 171 thousand views, as best as I can tell without searching back through all the threads, it is the most viewed thread here by far. The next most viewed thread, with just a cursory check, it the "first time you kissed your cousin" thread. It has a little less than half as many, at 80 some odd thousand views. I know the spiders have ran that total up considerably. I see spiders on those threads regularly. Which means they are doing their job as well, gleaning information relative to the searches they receive. I assume when someone has feelings for a cousin, or has kissed a cousin, and there is confusion as to what the emotions are that accompany such, the search engine is your friend. I'll also assume that if one were to google " I think I like my cousin" or I kissed my cousin", these threads would be either at the top of the search, or very near to it. I wonder if there would be a way to attach a message to the reply button for only this thread, such as is automatically triggered when an old thread gets "Lazarus'd"? Something to the effect of "Feel free to post in this thread, but be aware if you would like to have advice, please post in the General Topic section 'Help?Advice' as well". Seeing as how this thread may very well be the "front door" of the sight, in a manner of speaking, my personal opinion is, let's not lock it. LadyC, perhaps you, Boss, or CM could figure out a way to attach a message to this thread, either as a header at the top of each page, or "red letter" advisory before posting in it. My expertise and privileges are pretty much limited to the guard dog who swings the banhammer, so I don't think I would be able to do it, if I could figure out how to. Just my $.02....
  18. Ek Jigyasu, I've removed your FB profile just as I would have if you had posted your e-mail. Whether you realize it or not, you are asking for trouble, such as blackmail and spam. We don't allow open posting of e-mail addresses, and, as a Mod, I'm going to take it upon myself to now add FB profiles to that. I have no doubt the other Mods and Admins will concur. I'm going to link you to another thread I locked. When I do, you'll see why I locked it, and why I'm linking this thread to it. Please follow my advice as spelled out in that thread. https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,7972.0.html
  19. Romalee, Well then don't show him this, but I needed a new one, and got, A NEW CHAINSAW... (He says in his best "Price is Right" voice) LOL
  20. Dhannu singh, I approved your post so I may educate you perhaps. We do realize that in India, according to customs, cousins are like siblings. However, scientifically, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COUSIN SISTER OR COUSIN BROTHER. PERIOD. This notion of yours is the major part of why there is so much wailing and gnashing of teeth among hysterical family members, when cousins happen to fall in love in India. For the life of me, I will never understand how a population that is generally accepted as being among the best scientifically educated in the world does not seem to be able to grasp this fact. The only thing I can figure is that, just as other fanatical religious believer across the globe, they are so steeped in the tradition, they refuse to face the science. Let me ask you this, oh wise swami. Once your mother reaches the age of 38-40, is she considered to be your "grandmother mother", and therefore lot allowed to re-marry if widowed or divorced, and/or prohibited from having children? Because, genetically, the risks are EXACTLY THE SAME. That, my friend, is a FACT. Not a myth, not a tradition, a FACT. Having said that, India is not the only place such notions are held. There are similar notions among other religions, (though, other than Hindu, it isn't prohibited, and there is debate over whether the Hindu texts positively forbid it) and even the non-religious throughout Asia, and even to a degree here in the US. About half the 50 States allow for cousins to marry, the rest don't, or have limited exceptions of some sort. Even here, depending on how close-knit the family is, cousins can, and many times do, consider themselves emotionally as close as siblings. I do, actually. We were just in another thread last night going into some of this, and how our families consider older cousins, and first cousins once removed, and even second cousins once removed, to be sort of "surrogate" Uncles and Aunts. I am here because of how close I am to a second cousin of mine. My Mother is an only child, so, on her side, I only have second cousins. This second cousin of mine was born exactly one week to the day after me. As kids, we met. As soon as we did, and realized we were in our momma's bellies at the same time, we were instantly favorite/best cousins. Shortly thereafter, they moved across the street from us. Her and her older sister, and me and my two younger brothers all played together and had a large time. We got closer, to the point that they consider us the brothers they never had, and we consider them the sisters we never had. HOWEVER, we were never, nor are we now, under any sort of delusion that we are actually siblings, having NOT came from the same womb. We know we are what is considered here to be very close to DISTANT cousins. In my experience, at least here in America, (and I realize it is different in India) families are so fractured and dispersed, that many people do not even personally know their second cousins. My Father had three brothers, and two half brothers, so I have quite a few first cousins on that side. But, none of them live anywhere close to me, and I've only met them a handful of times. Most of them, I wouldn't know if they came up and slapped me in the face. I only got to know one of them personally because she lived here for a while when her Dad lived here for a while. The rest of them, I've met, but some only once, and the others not enough to recognize them since we're older. I ain't got a clue about them, and they are certainly nowhere near siblings to me. But, as we see with your beliefs, these notions die very hard. That's exactly why my second cousin and I are not together. Second cousins only share 1% more DNA than two totally unrelated people, and there is NO known increase in the risks to any children they may choose to have. However, back when we had out little "moment", this information was nowhere near as accessible as it is now. There was no internet, more less site such as this. I knew we were far enough apart on the family tree that there probably wouldn't be a problem, but, she didn't. She was nervous, I didn't push the issue, and we walked away from it. All for no reason, other than the lack of factual information. This, with her not getting the whole "once removed" generational thing, and thinking we were actually THIRD cousins. She ass-u-me-d we were STILL too close, plus, being so close emotionally, it was pretty intense, in very short order. Overwhelmingly so. Like her, we constantly see reactions such as that out of cousins here. Understandable by some traditions, and, I might add, here in the US, with the dissemination of faulty science back in the 1800's. Now, the evidence is in, and the risks have been WAY overblown. Yes, there IS a SLIGHTLY increased risk, but not so much as to even be remotely thought of to prevent other, similarly risky reproductions from occurring. If someone were to propose LEGALLY preventing 40 yr old women from having children, they would probably be taken out and tarred and feathered. They would certainly be dismissed as some sort of unstable. Which brings me back to my sentiments on hysterical families reactions to scientifically similar risks in, not only India, (though it does seem to be the worst) but throughout the world. Do consider going to the main page of the site here,( https://www.cousincouples.com/ ) clicking the menu drop-down, and further educating yourself, like I did some 6 years ago now......
  21. ^^^ Yup, what LadyC said, and that they would do that isn't surprising, at least to me. The young lady mentioned does that with me, and, I'm relatively sure the son does it with my brothers, who he's spent considerably more time with than I. I do see the lad on occasion, but he's such a shy youngster, he's pretty quiet around me. I'm trying to remember if he calls me "Uncle" too, and have a feeling I may have heard him refer to me as such. He lives with his mother, but fairly close to his Dad, and spends considerable time with his Dad. But, his Dad only brings him to our private club on the rare occasion, such as after Little League games for a soda and such. Now that this has been brought up, I'll be sure to pay a little closer attention the next time I see him.
  22. leafoflove, Funny you should say that actually. "Uncle" ______ ___'s son, who calls Mom and Cuz's Mom "Aunt", has a daughter and son. I've not spent so much time around the son, but the daughter, when she was young, was flower girl in my last wedding. She's grown into a charming young woman, and, having the history, calls ME "Uncle"_____. So yeah, don't feel too bad about it, take it as a compliment, and the term of endearment that it is....
  23. leafoflove, And, your Grandma's Sister's Daughter, whom you have listed as "Aunt" is actually your Mother's first cousin, making her your 1st cousin once removed, not Aunt. Meaning, as LadyC said, the primary relationship horizontally on the family tree is first cousins, between her Mom and your Mom. You are "one generation removed" from that level, hence, 1st cousins once removed, or as abbreviated around here, 1C1R. Don't feel too bad about it though. Me and mine are second cousins. Our Grandfathers were brothers. Our Mom's have a male first cousin by our Grandfathers' youngest brother. We started out calling him "Uncle" ______ ____, probably 30 years ago or so, just busting his chops, trying to make him feel old, basically just pulling his chain. Well, it ended up sticking. And, in the process, his son calls Mom and Cuz's Mom "Aunt". Mom and "Uncle" ______ ____ were only children, and Cuz's Mom may as well have been. (She had a several years older half-brother) Growing up, they were a lot like siblings. Actually, they still are. They drive each other crazy at times, LOL. So, depending on how close the family is, at least in our case, it isn't really unusual to sort of blur the lines like that.....
  24. Tom182, You're smart in not sending it, I'm telling you. It may be more daunting, and you will have to man up, but face to face when the time is right is, IMHO, the ONLY way to do it. You may be being selfish, but yes, we are all only human, and we get impatient. Believe me when I tell you you DO need a distraction. Until such time as there would be the possibility of a relationship, it's none of your parent's business. Even if they wouldn't care, why have them laugh you off over it??? Bide your time. I don't recall how old you are, but I'm going to go back and look. My intention is to make a point. Ok, you're 23. When I was 20, my same age (second) cousin and I were together, albeit briefly. Before this, we were close. We were, and still are favorite/best cousins. We are damn near the same age, born a week apart on each other's due date. We'd met, OK? So, 32 years ago next month, we partied it up like rock stars for a couple weeks, and took our love and affection (that had been a mutual given, since we were kids) to a whole nuther (ultimate) level. We'd never had the "Aww, I love you this much" talk. We had it by instinct. One thing just led to another, in very short order. It was so intense, so fast, that she freaked out. I would be lying if I didn't say it didn't freak me out a little. But, I didn't care what ANYBODY would have said about it. It felt so right and so deep, I would have taken us to the ends of the Earth to escape any drama, had she been willing. Had I made it that clear, maybe she would have, but, I didn't make it clear enough, because I didn't want to push her. So, we walked away from it, and the whole thing was so awkward it damn near ruined our underlying relationship. It didn't, but our feelings had to be put WAY WAY WAY down low. To the point that we avoided being alone with each other afterwards. Probably for good reason. Now, we've aired it all out and we're good with it. When I first got here, I was married, she still has her long time BF. We have no stomach for cheating. I now have a very good GF. When I went through the divorce, I'm sure, if I had chosen to do so, I could have pushed her to break up with her BF, and come with me. The family would have openly thanked me for it. (I thought about it, for about 10 minutes, since I'd been accused of it a couple times anyhow, but thought better of it, and her.) But, THAT IS NOT MY PLACE. Her relationship is her deal. The difference is, we know how we feel about each other. And we STILL, WILL NOT cheat. I have no doubt, if I called her up right now, and told her I needed her, and I needed to see her, and I was on my way, she would give me an address, and (I think it's about 3 hours away) her door would be unlocked when I got there. And, unless her BF was there, (which he probably isn't) I could curl right up in the bed with her, and nothing would happen. But, If I really wanted to be a cad, I could probably push the issue, and heat things up. But guess what? In the morning, when we woke up, and the reality of what we had done sat in, it would be another 30 years of avoidance, and this time, for a very good reason. How could she look in my eyes knowing she had cheated? How could I look in her eyes knowing I'd talked her into it? You think telling her face to face when she's finally available is daunting, try going about it wrong. If you absolutely cannot have any other relationship than with her, then you wait. If you aren't willing to wait, then I suggest you look elsewhere, because she deserves better than to be put in a situation. Having openly told you all of this, I want you to know, I've stuck around here to advise members and guests 10 years or so younger than you to put their feelings on the back burner, and bide their time. They have all the time in the world, and I'm telling you, so do you. If she's worth it, you'll wait. If you don't, you'll screw it up, and never have a chance with her anyhow. In the meantime, I suggest you get out and see the sites. Hell, date some. It doesn't have to be too serious. Go out to eat, catch a movie, find a girl friend. It doesn't have to be a girlfriend. Just because you make up your mind to wait on her doesn't mean you have to do it in the basement. You never know, you may find someone who distracts you from thinking about your cousin. I know that no matter how I may feel about my cousin, if we were together, I don't see any way it could be any better than it is with the girl I'm with now. With a little work, it might could be AS good, because Cuz IS a good woman. But, I'm not sure how it could actually be better. Right now, I'm tellin' ya kids, this old goat is livin' the life o Riley. I'll tell you right now, there IS someone out there for you. It may be your cousin, in which case you wait. But it may not be her either, and if you set around pining too long, you could just miss out.... I always say these things are about timing. Me and mine had our moment, and the timing was never right after that, and never will be now. Timing as in face time, when the timing is right and she doesn't have a SO. Timing in the conversation, when it turns to an appropriate time to at least drop the old "If you weren't my cousin" shtick. The timing has to be right, and with the situation being what it is, now ain't the time.
  25. WM126, Well, first off, do a little reading around here, and see if you can find what we call my "broken record speech" to young members. If you can't, get back with me, and I'll pm you a rather windy version I need to polish up a bit, and see if we can make a sticky out of it. I (hopefully) am laid off for at least a few more weeks, and will try to find the time to do so. Next, you are wrong. Just because you are in your mid-teens does not mean nobody cares. I'm an old fart, in my 50's now, but I've not killed so many brain cells that I don't remember 15. I got in here to advise a young member a couple years older than you at the time. Then, once I was here, I was amazed at how many young members there were in some variation of a similar situation. So, from a perspective of what NOT to do, I've stuck around to try to guide our young members, and by extension, lurkers, as to how to proceed. I'll not bore you with too many specifics of the broken record speech, but the basics are: Focus on your education, put it all on the back burner and the down low for the time being, build the friendship, get smart and get out on your own, then, when your ready, go for it. In the meanwhile, and as a part of building the friendship, when the moment seems right, (sometime during this spring break thing?) test the waters with what we call the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin, .... " line. You two are certainly old enough to test the waters with this innocuous little ice-breaker. If she says something to the effect of "Yeah, sux don't it? You're pretty much my type" or something like that, you know you can ease the conversation a little further. If, on the other hand she say "Ewww, what are you talking about, we're cousins", you have the out of saying "I said IF, you know, IF we WEREN'T cousins..." and then DROP IT. The ball will be in her court, and it gives her food for thought. And, trust me, think about it she will. It may take 5 years, (and I personally, from personal experience would like to see it take even a little longer than that) but she would not be the first one to come back at some point in the future, and say "You know, I was thinking about that 'if we weren't cousins thing, and ...." The thing you have to keep in mind is, going forward, timing will be everything. If you find out she feels the same, it isn't out of the question to kiss the girl. BUT, at your age, do keep the hormones in check. Even though you are in the unique situation of having at least her Mom not so subtly nudging you two together, if you get too carried away with some neeked shenanigans, and get caught in some sort of compromising position, all of that will go away. For the time being, and at your age, I'll not say NO physical, but you'll do well indeed to keep it under control at the very least until you two are of age. I personally would encourage you to stay close, get closer, but keep it in check until somewhere closer to 20ish, or my personal preference of 22ish or so. By then, you should know where your going with your lives, and if there's a little history, and it's went well, with no drama, it's a LOT easier to proceed. Plus, you've got a GF, she's got a BF, and that's all fine and good for now. Do a little dating as you go. You're learning the ropes of how to deal with the opposite sex. And you have some learning to do yet at your age, believe me. And, since I'm throwing cold water on you, let me toss on a good cold shower. You didn't mention where you are, so DON'T. But, as a mod, I can have a little peek. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HER WHERE YOU ARE. That, provided my look-up is right. You say you were raised together until a few years ago, and now you don't see her so much. By that, I'm assuming they moved. If they are in the same State, then you don't want any shenanigans at hers if you're there either. If they moved out of state, then go to this page: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states , look up which State she's in, and see what your legal drama there may be. If it shows as a green color, it's not an issue. If it's anything else, the legalities are going to vary. Stay anonymous, and don't say where you are, or where she is, but do consider this going forward. If you are in the State I'm showing you in, you can find yourself in quite the legal pickle if you get caught in an uncompromising position. I don't want to discourage you from any of the advice I've given you, not in any way. Just another reason to keep your pants on, LOL. I just want you to know, that if things do go good, and at some point you two DO become an item, it will be somewhere else. All the more important to get an education or learn a skill/trade that will allow you to be able to go elsewhere for work. If you're now even MORE confused, feel free to PM me, and we'll privately go into a few more of the "intricacies" of your situation. You're in nowhere near the worst position we've seen, but, if things go well, you will be needing further guidance at some point. That's why we're here. Take advantage of this place. For now, I've got a little more time to kill than usual, and I check in a few times a day. I'll be glad to help you any way I can.
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