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Everything posted by Hawk

  1. Akshay, Nice. That always helps, having a partner on the same page.... :wink:
  2. loli, I'm not sure of any currently active members who have children together. I know there have been several couples here who have posted about their children. The old picture thread even had several pictures. One of our former admins and his cousin had a son, a fine young man who graduated with honors. Several others posted either pics and/or stories of how their children were fine. I only know of one member who's children had the issues noted as being a possibility. And I don't want to make light of it in any way either. The children did have a quite serious condition. But, they were getting the proper medical treatment, and at the last we heard, all survived. She's not posted in quite some time, so I'm not sure if the effects have lessened as they have gotten older. We always advise our members who are thinking of starting a family to get genetic counseling. We would certainly encourage you to do so. If you get the green light from your GC, we would expect your OB doctor to be fully informed, and most likely keep a close eye on your pregnancy. Do remember, the chances are high that you would NOT have any problems. The risks are the same as with an older mother, say over the age of ~38yrs old or so. Society generally accepts that risk, so it comes down to your personal assessment of whether such a risk is acceptable. As with an older mother, you would expect your pregnancy to be closely monitored. So, first things first, talk to a genetic counselor, and weigh your decision based on their conclusion. Just as we have legal facts posted on the main page, we're not lawyers. We have genetic facts posted, and links to the studies, but we personally are not GC's, and can only advise you to seek their counsel to make a fully informed decision. If there are members or guests with children by their cousin, please do pipe in here, and tell of your experience....
  3. Akshay, Once again, you need to double check and be absolutely sure about the legalities of it, BUT, if the breakdown looks like what I posted, so far as we know, being here in the US and having a hard enough time deciphering OUR laws, it should be legal. I'm also curious as to if she shares your feelings, and is willing to withstand the drama. Many times the woman faces much more crap than the man. She'll have to be willing to put her foot down too, and stand by you.
  4. MrClassified007, I'm going to link you over to the thread and my reply to Tom182, who is in a quite similar situation..... https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,8246.0.html
  5. Tom182, Feel free to make the changes LadyC has recommended, save them to that file, then save the file, and for the time being DON'T send it. If she's with someone else, you stay aware of her relationship status FROM A DISTANCE. If she gets out of the relationship, get in contact, and if things go well enough, THEN send it. I know it's eating you up holding it inside. But, if she's happily with someone, you're risking coming off as creeping on her, and her having a major freak-out on you. Even if she's NOT in the happiest of relationships, all of this needs to be done face to face. It also needs to be done when she is fully available, or at the very least obviously unhappy enough in the relationship to be a the point of walking away from it. In the meanwhile, put this on the back shelf, and get out, see the sights, and get yourself distracted. Maybe start working out, take a night class, go hiking regularly, SOMETHING to distract you. Consider if you were in a relationship, may (or worse, may not) have similar feelings, and SHE sent something like that to you. At the very least it would be confusing. Consider if you had a GF, and some cat (cousin or not) sent something like that, and you saw it on her phone. You'd be wanting to know what the hell was going on. Would you believe her if she told you "Nothing. I don't know where this is coming from out of him. We're only friends/cousins." If you're like most men, you'd say "Yeah, SURE" and it would start a big ole bunch of crap she doesn't need. I seriously doubt she'd EVER be in any sort of mood to discuss it with you face to face either. These things are all about timing. So long as she's attached, no matter how loosely, it isn't the time. As I said, stay aware of her relationship status, and if it should change, THEN the time is more conducive. And, I would first start out with the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin,..." line, then if the response was favorable enough, go into all the rest of it. I just don't see how texts or any other social media outlet can be anything other than shooting yourself in the foot unless the circumstances are just damn near perfect for it. I'm going to link this over to MrClassified007 in his thread too, as he's in quite a similar situation, and I'm a lazy old fart and don't want to type it again. :laugh:
  6. Just someone also inlove, If you would, go back up and read my advice to the OP in this thread. It's going to be a little different in your case, because you've already had the old "if you weren't my cousin" talk. You are also borderline old enough to have what we here loosely call "The Talk", where you openly discuss your feelings with each other in a sober and adult manner. You mentioned your country being a possible problem, as well as family. You (wisely, IMHO) didn't mention what country, so, I won't either. But, kinda another one of those "good news/bad news" deals for you. As a mod, I can, and do, avail myself of the privilege of having a little peek when it's an issue. Some good news. You aren't in what we consider the worst country as far as cousin couples goes. That title goes to India, by far. Where you are, as well as India, (so far as we can tell) and everywhere else we know of, second cousins are legal to marry. That's the good news. Now, for some not so good news, with a little not so bad news thrown in. Although it's legal there for second cousins, there is quite the considerable cultural bias against it. Not as bad as India, as I mentioned, but, almost right up there with it. Your drama out of family may or may not be as bad. Unlike there, you would probably not face threats of violence toward you, or suicide by them, to try to control you, or make you change your mind. But, the pressure could still be considerable. So, for now, go back up and read the advice about keeping it on the down low for a couple more years or so at least, focus on your studies and parlaying that into gainful employment, get out on your own, keep building the friendship and trust, and once you are older and ready, THEN go for it, and don't let ANYBODY talk you out of it....
  7. Akshay, I'm going to try to follow this, tell me if I've got it right. Woman Sister (siblings) Your grandpa Her Mom (1st cousins) Your Mom Her (2nd cousins) You If this is how it looks, then you two are second cousins (primary relationship of her and your Mom) "once" (one generation in the family tree) removed. That is second cousins once removed. If I'm reading it as your Great-grandmother's sister's grand-daughter, this is how you are related. So far as we know, from second cousins on out, it is legal to marry everywhere we know of in the world. I'm not sure where Tamil Nadu is, so, I'll go have a little peek on my IP checker to be sure.... Ok, I see it is in South India. Good news, bad news. The good news is, #1, as I said, so far as we know, it is legal, and, #2, in South India, there is not quite as strong of a cultural taboo as in the North of India against cousin couples. HOWEVER, if I were a betting man, I would bet that you would STILL have all kinds of the stupidest drama you have ever seen in your life. Expect it. Genetically, you two share as much DNA as totally unrelated couples share. There would be NO expected adverse effects on any children you two may choose to have, as far as the known issues between first cousin couples. Sleep easy over that. If it were me, here's how I would handle it. Since there is a set of Marriage Act's in India, regarding the major religions there, and so far as we know, in the Hindu Marriage Act, it is legal, I would first verify that, to be sure. If it is, and there is an Act, I will assume there is an accompanying marriage license that is issued. I would legally obtain the license. I would then show the license, and announce the engagement. I would announce that your wishes are for everyone to participate, and be happy about the good news. I would also let it be very well known that anyone who does not agree, and would not wish to be a part of it would gladly be excused from participating. If NOBODY agrees, and wishes to participate, you simple have a civil wedding, OR, find religious leaders who will perform the marriage, unrelated witnesses if needed, and go that route. That the marriage can be stopped WOULD NOT BE AN OPTION. Listening to BS drama about it WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. You will have to put your foot down hard, stand your ground, and stick to it. You will have to be more stubborn than them. No small feat probably, but certainly doable. I wish you the very best of luck..... :grin:
  8. cross514, I'll agree with LadyC, and perhaps give you a little further food for thought. One, there are no known MILD disorders directly related to offspring of cousins that I'm aware of. There may be varying degrees of severity, but the conditions we're talking about here are quite serious indeed. If you had one of them, you'd know it. By the same token, they are extremely rare, even among communities where arranged cousin marriages are the norm. Only in select communities are the exaggerated numbers noted. And those are presumed to be related to a phenomenon called "Founders Effect" or some such. I don't recall the specifics, but line breeding and interbreeding are a factor in it, but not the only one. If you're so inclined, look it up. Offspring afflicted in this manner are in no condition to wax eloquent on the matter, as is your effort. Believe me when I tell you, if you were missing just one gene, depending on which one, you wouldn't be here typing. If you were missing a chromosome, depending on which one it is, you wouldn't be setting there typing. You've got all your parts and pieces, don't worry. Another thing to keep in mind is that you find it gross because society as a whole has come, over the last 150 yrs or so, to find it gross. Looking at the history and actual genetics of it, there is nothing gross about it. Looking at it religiously, (other than in Hinduism, and the actual facts of what it says is open to some interpretation) it is not considered gross, and in certain instances, has been commanded. Very close to 80% of all marriages throughout history have been between first or second cousins. 15 billion people, or whatever the number would be, can't all be wrong, or gross. Whether we would like to admit it or not, we're all somewhere down the line out of such marriages. I'll venture a relatively conservative guess that you're in good company with at least a half a billion people on the planet at this very moment, who are the offspring of cousins. The actual number could be twice that, I'm not sure. You could probably look that up too and get some sort of accurate number. Suffice it to say, you're not alone by a long shot. Also, many "arranged" marriages don't work out, and are not happy. BUT, many more "love" marriages end up not happy and end in divorce. Like my parents for example. My cousin's parents. My GF's parents. I have to put more effort into figuring out which of my friends parents AREN'T divorced, than which ones are. Although it didn't work that way in the case of your parents, the statistics are that arranged marriages, cousins or not, have a much higher success rate. While initially the parties may not be in love, the likelihood of them falling in love over time, and that love deepening over time, is a common noted observation. By you saying it was "forced" and not "arranged" it could fall outside the typical definition of such marriages, but if it does fit that bill, these stats are a given. Keep in mind too, that this site tends to deal with cousins that are not forced together, but who love each other and are much more often forced APART. Or at least a very strong effort is made to do so. The effort is made to keep them apart because of all the unfounded biases you are feeling, as a result of the "conventional wisdom" on the subject as it has come to be. HOWEVER, do not feel that we are not here to help you with the feelings you have, and perhaps clearing up common misconceptions that have been forced on you. Apparently you ARE bright, so, I would encourage you to go to the main page, https://www.cousincouples.com/ have a look around, check out the actual facts, and see if it doesn't make you feel a little better about yourself, and considerably more knowledgeable than the average schmuck walking around spouting "facts" to you, of which they know nothing about. Even though I was one of the bigger kids my age growing up, I had my share of being picked on because of my looks. "Hows the weather up there? HAHAHA" Well, I finally had an arse full of it, and I would stick out my tongue and blow slobbers at them and say "Not bad, but I see it's raining down there, HAHAHA" It didn't take but a few times to stop the weather jokes, but, it just switched to the size of my feet, my haircut, my this, my that. Shallow people will always find a way to belittle you, in order to make themselves feel bigger. You may as well start sticking up for yourself now. Yeah, you may get scuffed up a time or two, I did, but sooner or later it will stop. At 6'3" and about 230#, I don't get any weather jokes and BS anymore. I'm going to say it's been over 20 years since someone wanted to try me on for size too. Funny how that works....
  9. sam675, My advice still stands, and, I'll add that she has to know that culturally, even though her parents aren't cousins like yours, it isn't something to totally rule out of hand. She genuinely may not see you in the same light as you see her, and you may have to face that, hard as that my be. But, I'm telling you, she's thinking. Right now, she's got you in the "friendzone". Good for her, but sux being you, feeling the way you do. While it's hard to get out of the friendzone, it's not impossible. It usually takes her getting crapped on by some asshat, to realize she need not put up with such, when you are there, and a viable option. Rather unpleasant to watch, from your perspective, but do resist any temptation to say "I told you so" if that should happen. I really do get the feeling the little wheels in her head are starting to turn. I mean, after she said "I won't bring it up, I promise", what's the first thing she did? She brought it up! Just like I said she would, if I do say so myself, LOL (I'll try not to break my arm patting myself on the back here, ok? LOL) The only difference is, I thought it would take her longer.... :wink: We saw a very similar scenario out of the guy that got me wound up to actually join and post in this forum several years ago. He was considerably more full of angst than you, but, they were considerably younger than you too. The scenario was playing out quite similar though. She saw it as an impossibility, got herself a BF, and our boy was devastated. She wanted her cake, and to eat it too. She had him in the friendzone, and wanted her BF to be the BF, and him to be her best friend. I told him he should remind her that if she has a BF, the BF has to be the best friend, and he has to make himself scarce. So, that's what he did. It didn't take but a couple days for the BF to be out of the picture, because, in the end, our boy was more important to her than this BF would be. She decided she would go for it with our boy here. Mind you, this is in the US, and in the same State as me. In this State, it isn't against the law, but, they'll not be able to legally marry here either. He's not been here in forever, but, the last we heard from him, they were quite the item, they were at different Uni's, alternating weekend travel between them to see each other, and had become masters at hiding it from family. One difference in your case is, you (I'm assuming) wouldn't have to hide it from family, as it's a fairly accepted practice. Bide your time son. She could be coming around. I would keep it at 2-3 times a week seeing her too. Since you told her, she wants it to be even more? Mmmm Nah. You're not a glutton for punishment. If it all has to be platonic and casual, then casual it is. You start jumping at her beckon call, and she'll be expecting it. Looks needy on your part, even if it's HER that can't keep from bringing it up now, and not you. When she brings it up, be a good sport, and play along. After a couple more times, say maybe the third time she does it, slide in close to her, and whisper in her ear "Now who's bringing it up? Is someone starting to think 'If I wasn't his cousin, I'd be his GF' "? She'll blush, and you'll know. Then, you don't let her deny it, and you make her spill her REAL feelings, because it will be a little hard to deny it at that point.
  10. arjun55, Roma is right. We HIGHLY discourage these fake wedding deals. Eventually, they WILL be found out, and you will have 4 times the drama. Your best option is for you to move to the UK where it IS legal, and, if she's so inclined as you, get married. Find your own roof, and your own way. I'm not real sure as to how you would have a harder life in the UK than you would pretty much anywhere in Asia. Since this sort of scheme seems to be the best idea you've seen, I'll assume you are Hindu Indian. That is where the vast majority of these schemes get concocted. Unless you are at the upper end of an upper caste, I would think whatever you do in the UK would be a step up. I would also assume if you are of an upper caste, even if much of your resources were denied you over this, you would still have some wherewithal to make a go of it in the UK. I'll go ahead and link a thread I locked, as I said I would, when this sort of thing popped up again. https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,7972.0.html Forgive me if I have wrongly assumed you are from India. My look-up does show you as NOT being in India, but, I seriously doubt you are where it shows you as being, as that is a known physical site of numerous proxies, and it isn't exactly in Asia. You aren't directly showing as being on a proxy, but then again, that's the idea, and it's also why I like the idea of running on a proxy. Bad for me to try to determine which country or State you are in, so as to properly advise you, but good on you for security reasons. Therefore, if I have wrongly assumed you are Hindu Indian, feel free to further enlighten me as to your country (I don't need anything anymore specific than that) and general religious/cultural background. The advice may change slightly, but, I have a feeling regardless of any of that being different, (say, you are Buddhist Chinese) I'm still going to want to see you in the UK. It is legally a LOT more friendly, and has considerably more legal protections for your physical safety too.
  11. rtorres07, Well, if he's backing up, it's probably because of BS drama out of his Mom or someone in the family. He's old enough to not put up with it. He needs to step up and nip it now, before he finds himself without you, choking on her apron strings. You need to let him know that there is no legitimate reason the two of you can't be together. All he has to do is put his foot down and not accept any grief or drama over it. If he still won't grow a set and stand up to them, then, as hard as it is, you may have to move on. If YOU have no stomach for their BS, that may as well include YOU moving somewhere else, without him, or them, and fully starting over. You may hold out hope for a while, but don't waste your life waiting. And, if you do move on and find someone else, DON'T GO BACK if at some point in the future he changes his mind. These things are all about timing. For me and mine, when we were your age, we were still too young, walked away, and the timing was never right again. Now, it never will be. We're good with that, but, looking back, we do realize if we did have it all to do over again, we would have handled it differently. That doesn't necessarily mean we'd be together, just that we would have probably given it a chance. And, had we given it a chance, odds are we would have made it. But, water under the bridge and all that. Too late now. I do know, that if we had been 22 instead of 20, by then, I was considerably more nervy, and I would have maybe not pushed her, but dug into the reasons she was scared, and let her know I would handle the drama. By that age, I was fully in "if you don't like it, take a big flying kiss outta my backside" mode, and everybody knew it. That made for some bad decisions on my part, but everybody let me make them, and let me pick myself up and dust myself off when I fell on my face. It made me a lot smarter in the end too. Maybe you can wait on him to get to that point, but, I'll tell you right now, don't wait too long......
  12. Kylie123, You're close, but not exactly how I would handle it. sam675, Kylie123 is right in that you don't want to shut her out and get upset about it. BUT, for now, the topic is dropped. Leave it dropped. She's admitted in the back of her mind occasionally she DOES entertain the thought. LET HER, without bringing it to the fore. Sooner or later, if she thinks about it enough to warm to the idea, she'll find the opportunity to bring it up again. The conversation will probably start out along the lines of " Now I don't want to upset you, but...." When it does, you DON'T let it upset you. If she brings it up, it's because she's considering it, but still conflicted. She will be looking for something on your part to tip the scales one way or the other. My advice is, when (of course, this is an IF too now) such a conversation happens, you say "I won't get upset, BUT, I want to show you something before we get real deep into this conversation". Then, take her to the main page here, and show her the facts. Tell her you found this place when you started realizing there were some deeper feelings on your part, and YOU were conflicted about them. If she has questions, both of you look around until you find the factual answers to them. If it goes to the further topics of "What will the family think/How would we explain it to family/other people, you come to the forum here, and read the stickies on those topics. Until she brings it up though, leave it stewing on her back burner. If it stews long enough, it will come to a boil, and she won't be able to contain it. If during that time, she sees that the relationship hasn't gotten weird, she'll have a pretty good indication that, so long as she doesn't make it weird, she can still broach the topic, even if briefly, then back off if necessary. Bide your time. She's thinking. LOL Dangerous I know, but, you've given her food for thought. Let it simmer. I'm telling you, sooner or later, if nothing else, she'll drop the "if we weren't cousins" line or SOMETHING to bring it back up. It may take weeks, months, or a year even. But, I'm telling you, I think she's stewing it over, and she will bring it back up. You just have to be the cool character until she does.
  13. influx4567, YUP That ^^^ right thar. Unlucky has said virtually the exact things I was thinking when I read your post. Nice work UIL.... :kiss:
  14. rtorres07, Your biggest issue at hand is his current relationship with the mother of his children. If it isn't completely over and settled, you need to back off until it is. You don't mention where you are, and I won't either. We stay anonymous here, and I do my best as a mod to see to it. (* see p.s.) Anyhow, where you are, (provided my look-up is correct, and it's pretty good) it's perfectly legal for you two to have whatever relationship you choose, up to and including marriage. So, that takes away the "cousin" issue as far as custody/visitation of his kids is concerned. BUT, that needs to be settled first, and you don't need to be the issue, cousin or not. You both cool the jets, and let him get to a point he's fully available. Unless he's already fully out of this relationship with her, you're the third wheel. If and when that happens, it doesn't matter what your family says. Legally, they can't keep you two from seeing each other, and in the US, the law is the only thing that can physically keep you two from being together. Well, other than if you live under their roof, they can keep it from happening there, and put you out from under their roof if they don't agree with it happening elsewhere. Big whoop. You need to be out and independent anyhow, as far as I'm concerned. I always recommend getting at least a two bedroom place, which, with kids, would mean at least a three bedroom place. One bedroom for him, one for you, and at least one for the kids. Everyone has their own space. Keeps up appearances for nosy ex-s and family, and gives everyone their own space. When the kids are elsewhere, the actual sleeping arrangements are NOT for public consumption. They only know for sure what's going on if you tell them what's going on, and at 20 years old, it ISN'T any of their business, no matter if they think it is or not. They get their life to run and make the decisions in, not theirs AND yours. A lot of people don't get that, but it should be made clear. Feel free to bring him here and show him this thread. Feel free to go here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states and print off the information for the State you are in, to pass out amongst the drama queens. Let them know there is no legal leg to stand on in keeping the two of you apart or the kids away from him. Beyond that, tell them nothing of the actual physical nature of your relationship. It's none of their business...... Having said all that, and posting it, I realize I didn't really answer your initial questions. So, since you're not the first to ask by a long shot, there happens to be a couple stickies on the subject. They are here: https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,2483.0.html and here: https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,1444.0.html p.s. You are a little less anonymous than I usually like to see, BUT a few others here are less anonymous, it's legal where you are, and if you're comfortable, we're comfortable. And, really, so what if someone you know does stumble upon this? Do as I've advised, and what can they do? Blackmail you? Not really, you tell them to mind their own business. If they read this, I've said it, and if they should be foolish enough to post their rantings here, I'll tell them directly. THAT wouldn't be a first either. I've done it before, and would revel in doing it again. :wink: :grin:
  15. Ilr, You shut him down, tell him he's a little too long in the tooth for you, and really should focus on his marriage....
  16. andolin, I agree with LadyC, and I'll add my two cents if you don't mind. I agree that this probably won't come as any shock to your Mom. Or anyone else in the family for that matter. You now understand why we tell our young members to keep it on the down low until you are of age, ( I personally recommend to wait until right about the age you presently are) and THEN go for it. I'll also remind you to NOT let this interfere with your studies. You are also most likely a case study for why I always say that initially, the keeping it under wraps/sneaking around is exhilarating, but eventually becomes drudgery. You're so happy, you just want to stand on the top of the world and shout it out. However, if it were me, I would consider a slightly less overt approach. Many here have adopted some version of how I would handle it. Personally, I would tell the Mothers, and let those chips fall where they may. The rest of the family will either be informed by them, or catch on eventually. In the end, it isn't really any skin off their backside either way. It is perfectly legal in the UK, even if it is not quite so common there as it once was. Everyone may as well get use to it. Like LadyC, I don't think there will be too terribly much drama over it. After all these years of them seeing how lovely you are together, they really shouldn't be shocked. Any reaction like that is not shock, it's drama. If it started, I'll assure you, I would get one of these: http://www.cafepress.com/mf/44538864/no-drama_tshirt?productId=468604272 and wear it to EVERY family function until EVERYBODY got the hint. Of course, that's just me, LOL :grin: As far as new friends go, at least initially, (as with any new introductions) it really isn't so much of their business anyhow, now is it? If asked, I would use a line others here have used, and merely say "Oh, we've known each other and been friends since we were kids." After all, that IS the truth, isn't it? If these new friendships deepen to the point of further confidence, and such conversations become naturally, and appropriately, more involved, then perhaps I would discuss the matter further. I personally wouldn't go so deep into such personal matters until such a point that I realized new friends were apt to become more than casual acquaintances, and may end up being longer term/life-long friends. My situation is that I'm not with my cousin, nor shall we ever be together. We're the same age (50's) and back when we were 20, had what we call our "moment". She got scared of what other people would have said, I didn't want to push her, and we walked away, letting the whole affair be overly awkward for decades. In the last 3 or 4 years or so, we've aired it all out, and it's all good. But, much too much water has passed beneath the bridge to go back. We have SO's, and no stomach for cheating with each other. But, our mothers would not have been a problem. Her Mom knew. I mean, we came dragging in all rumpled up from just leaving mine, so, it was pretty obvious what was going on. We didn't really have to say a word. Her Mom can be quite the drama queen though, and started a conversation of some sort as soon as we walked in. Cuz hurriedly scampered to her room to get ready for work, and that's when her Mom took a breath, and a look at our condition. It was priceless. She was speechless. By the time she picked her chin up off the coffee table, I had moved beside her on the couch, and said something to the effect of "And you were saying....???" She got a huge grin, never said a word, and went right back into whatever she was rambling on about. Like I say, it was priceless, and I'll never forget it so long as I live. In airing it out, I asked her if her Mom had said anything afterwards, and perhaps that was why she got scared, and didn't want to go for it. (I always assumed, wrongly, that may have been the case) She said no, that her Mom never mentioned a word about it. After we backed off, I thought that at some point in the future, she could possibly get the nerve to go for it, so, I told my Mom something like "Don't be surprised if at some point me and Cuz become an item." She said "So long as you treat her good, and you make each other happy, I don't have a problem with it." Just the kinda Mom I have. Looking out for Cuz first, LOL. But, Mom looks at her and her sister as the daughters she never had too. And, her Mom looks at me and my brothers in a similar manner. So, bottom line? You make the best of what you have. You may have a drama filled dysfunctional family that ends up having no problem or drama over it, or a tight-knit family that looses touch. We've seen all ranges in between too. What worked at the time, and I'm sure would have over time, had we went for it, was to just act like it was the most natural thing in the world, and let that be the visual, and speak for itself.....
  17. Kylie123, We remind our members every so often that cousins are people too, with all the good qualities AND flaws we all share. It's probably been a while since one of us have reminded our members and guests of this, so, it's my turn to do so again. Folks come here with stars in their eyes and a spring in their step, and sooner or later, the reality of this fact comes into play, and the bloom comes off the rose, as it were. I'm not saying you in particular, seeing as how you did have at least some idea this could be the outcome. And, your case is one of the more extreme examples, though probably not the worst case we're aware of either. I'm sure this is a very hard pill for you to swallow, but, take it you must. You will survive. This will pass. The best you can wish for him, is that he gets the help he needs with his issues. The best you can do for you, is to realize it won't be you who fixes him. I am curious as to your opinion on part of this, if you know, and would be willing to speculate. How much of the family's "happiness" (in my mind, read relief) is related to the fact that you two are cousins, and they didn't want to see that, and how much of it could be their realization of his proclivities, and not wanting to see you drawn in and hurt? I'm sure the stigma most likely played a part in their drama, but, I am curious as to how much of it could have been looking out for your best interest as well. Was this side of the equation brought up, and to what extent, as compared to the whole "cousin" thing? (You may have mentioned this, but at the moment, I don't really have the time to go back and look. Plus, I'm curious as to your opinion here and now, looking back on it.)
  18. Hawk

    I need help

    kc123, I really wish you'd found your way here sooner, but, you're here now, so, here goes. You're going to get the broken record speech. Some of it you probably aren't going to like, but, if you'll pay close attention, I'll assure you, eventually, you'll be glad you did. Before we get too far into it, let's have a little peek and get a general idea where you are. You (wisely) didn't get overly specific, so trust me, I won't either. But, being a mod has it's privileges, and I avail myself of them discretely often, only for the best interest of our members. Ok, I'm back. As I said, I'll not mention where you are, but I am glad I checked. You, my young friend, find yourself in one of the more cousin "unfriendly" States. Not what I consider one of the worst, mind you, but bad enough they WILL ruin you if you let them. First cousins having sex is considered a crime there, so, my broken record speech becomes even more important for you to follow going forward. I'm also going to take the liberty to edit your post so as it does not read as you somehow incriminating yourself. Sorry. That's just the way this mod rolls. Alright, lets get down to the nitty gritty, shall we? I usually start out with the school/education part, but, in this case, I'm modifying it. In your case, I'm going to STRONGLY advise you to put this on the WAY down low, and cut out any neeked shenanigans. As in NOW. I know the genie is already out of the bottle, but, it behooves you to follow my advice, at the very least until the two of you are of age, and can travel elsewhere on occasion if the need be so strong. Cool the jets, set her down, show her this thread, and explain why it's a must. Go here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states , have a look at the State you're in, read carefully, and you'll see just why I'm telling you this. You do not want to needlessly ruin your lives at such a tender age. So, again, knock it off. Easier said than done? I'm sure it is. Of the utmost importance? I'll assure you it is. Do follow this part of my advice, if you take nothing else away from this. Put this on the WAY down low, stay friends, build the friendship to where it is unshakable, and in the meanwhile, BOTH of you follow the rest of my advice. Now, on to the schooling. Focus on your studies. If your grades are good, be sure this doesn't distract you from your work, and keep them up. If they aren't so good, put your energy into getting the grades up, and keeping them there. You're (both) going to want to be smart, and you had best be getting that way as fast as you can. Get high school out of the way, and get some college or vo-tech degrees/certs under your belts. Choose fields which interest you, and in which there is a broad demand. You're going to have to relocate. Start planning for it now. You aren't going anywhere with just a HS diploma. Start figuring out what you're going to do for a living that is broadly in demand. Keep all of this on the down low as you plan your future. You do not need further suspicion and drama out of family than you already have. Hold your tongue. Actual legal trouble requires evidence or admitting to it. Don't put yourself in such a situation. The waiting will be the hardest part, but, I would like to see you wait until you are at least 20, and I personally recommend 22ish or so. Lay your groundwork. Get in a position to get independent, somewhere else. You can look at that link I posted, and you will see that there are attractive options ("green" States) bordering yours, and/or not terribly far away. Start looking at what professions are in demand in those places, and start preparing. Once you are in a position to do so, go for it, and don't let anyone stop you. You already have the inclination to spend the rest of your life with this girl. While teen romances rarely work out that way, it is usually a function of too much of some of the behavior you have described, it being discovered, and massive drama you do not need overwhelming any future chance of success. Don't let that happen. Get your heads screwed on right, take baby steps, lay the groundwork for the future, and THEN go for it.
  19. LostWithReason, I'm going to say he feels the same as you. Whether it's been there as long on his part as it has yours remains to be seen. I have a feeling he's just as nervous about his feelings as you are. I'll also assume your being so cautious all this time ("I've never been one to take risk without knowing 100% for sure that a situation is correct,") has led to caution on his part as well. However, his behavior betrays his feelings, even if subconsciously. If this relationship of yours is pretty much over, don't drag it out, call it quits. We don't go for infidelity here, and, even though you aren't married, at this point, you are still technically attached. Though at this point, my cousin and I are neither married, we are both in committed relationships, and have been agreed since well before I was divorced that we have no stomach for cheating with each other. So, there will be no shenanigans on our part. Do you and your current "partner" a favor, and be fully available before you go down a new road. When you are free to pursue your feelings, I'll still advise you to go back to the old "If you weren't my cousin, ______" line. It breaks the ice, and at the same time gives you an out. If he agrees, you step it up, and say "Actually, we aren't related THAT close, so it doesn't REALLY bother me all that much that we ARE cousins." Perfectly honest. Remember, you now have the facts. But, if he reacts badly, actually does have the "ick" factor, and says "OMG, what are you talking about?", you have the out of saying "I did say IF you know? IF we weren't cousins...." Then, at least for the time being, you'll have to drop it. It will give him food for thought though, so don't be surprised if he doesn't come back at some point, (after possibly finding his way here, LOL) and say, "You know, I've been thinking...." I really don't think you have to worry about that though. I really think he feels almost exactly like you do. You just have to pry it out of him. :grin: At the next round of "touchy- huggy- feely" out of him, reciprocate. If it's in your comfort zone, and without prying eyes, kiss him. You'll know pretty quick how he feels then, and at that stage, you break the ice, and go from there....
  20. LostWithReason, If your grandfathers are brothers, then you two are second cousins. If you are seriously considering a relationship with him, then you need to button up any loose ends on your part. Beyond that, see above. You two are surely old enough to proceed. Get your facts in a row for any nay-sayers in the family, and don't worry about what anyone else says. The parents of your children don't get a say either. With second cousins being legal in all 50 States, if they say they will take the kids, smile and say "Try....". I personally would love to go before a judge and say "Your Honor, with second cousins being legal to marry in all 50 States, and us considering a relationship possibly up to and including that, just exactly WHY are we here?" Then, just set back and enjoy the smackdown, LOL Of course, again, way out in front of where you are at this point. If you and your current SO are agreed that it's pretty much over, then part as amicably as possible, and take any time until you do see your cousin to refocus. I'll encourage you to step it up as mentioned, but, do treat it as you would any new relationship. Because in reality, that's what it will be. That you two have known each other for as long as you have is not so unusual. It's only "the cousin factor" that causes the little wrinkle in it. You will probably want to be discrete initially. There is no need to invite unneeded drama until you find out if there is actually a mutual attraction and possibility of it going forward. If things do progress, don't be surprised if it gets very intense in relatively short order. That happens. We hear how the connection is so strong, and aspects of it being "uncanny", for lack of a better word. That's how it was with me and my second cousin. We were just a little too young at the time, (20) and had no such resource as this site. We have the whole "finish each others sentences, know what the other is thinking" thing that many members mention having when they come here. The actual verbalizing our feelings would have probably helped though. As would having been considerably more sober when we did so. But it is what it is, and now, decades later, it's all good. You want to have the nerve to have the conversation, preferably before any neeked shenanigans, but if not, certainly afterwards. Be sure you have the facts about cousin couples, because he may not (probably won't) know them, and might be overwhelmed by it at first. Tell him "Don't be skeered", show him this site, then decide where you want to go with it.
  21. LadyC, The thought that they could be 1C1Rs did occur to me as well, seeing as there is the age difference.... But, usually, first cousins know it. It's 1C1Rs that think they are 2nds, and 2nds that think they are 3rds, and so on.
  22. LostWithReason, Second cousins are legal to marry in all 50 States, and pretty much everywhere in the world we are aware of. Even Texas. I'm not doubting your actual relation, but are you sure you are second cousins, and not first cousins once removed? If either of you is the first cousin of one of the parents of the other, then you are 1C1R's. If one each of your parents are first cousins, then indeed, you are second cousins. (As in, one of your grandparents and one of his grandparents are siblings) This is one of the more confusing aspects of how the old family tree branches out, and one we often must clear up among our new members. There are some States, (LadyC, being in Texas, and married to her 1C1R, would know for sure about Texas) that do make the distinction that 1C1R's cannot marry, and others (such as Kentucky) word it as "not nearer of kin than second cousins". Also, with second cousins, there is no need for a dispensation from the diocese. Now, as to his feelings toward you, and how to figure that out. First off, how old are the two of you, and are either of you in a relationship at this point? If he's in the USMC, I'm sure he's of age, and from your tone and grammar, I'll assume you are as well. Provided I'm correct, and neither of you are attached at this point, you may as well have an adult conversation on the matter. Just by his behavior as you describe it, he has some level of feelings, possibly ( IMHO, probably) romantically inclined at least to some degree. Have either of you ever used what we call "the old tried and true 'If you weren't my cousin.....' " line? If so, how did that conversation go? If not, it sounds like it's time to go there, and see if that doesn't segue into "The Talk". Of course, if you are both unattached, the next time he's home, and his affection level is what it tends to be when you are single, why not ramp it up a little? Call his bluff so to speak, and see how far he's willing to take it. Actions do speak considerably louder than words. BUT, before you take it to it's eventual conclusion, sprinkle enough cool water on it to get some ground rules in place. Intimacy will change things. It is very apt to get very intense, very quickly, trust me. If things move too fast, it could overwhelm either or both of you, and the fears of what others will think could make you walk away from it. Again, trust me. If you are worried about what family will say, you will tend to be very discrete. Initially, the sneaking around can be very exhilarating and exciting. Eventually, it will become drudgery. All of this is out in front of where you are at this point, and, I see LadyC has hit a couple of my points too, when I went to preview this. Being Catholic, I'm assuming it isn't beyond you two to have a glass of wine or two either. That works to loosen the tension, but you would be well advised to not over imbibe in the middle of this process of discovering each others feelings. Again, trust me on that too. While you don't want to overthink it, you will want to have where you're going to go with this thought out with a clear head. Get a little too schnockered, let things get carried away, and you could find yourselves feeling quite awkward in the sober light of morning. Don't let it get awkward. Once again, trust me on that.
  23. I've always been more of a David Gilmore guy than a Roger Waters guy. But, I saw this several months back whilst, well, lets not go into what we were doing.... Anyhow, I find myself looking it up once a week or so since then. This is Part 1, Part 2 should show up as the first vid on the top right if you have the time to kill watching the whole thing. One of the links is to the whole DVD for any die hard Pink Floyd/Roger Waters fans.
  24. Keith Cambra, You don't want to play around in Texas. Or Wisconsin. Nevada either, as I recall. Possibly Oregon and a couple others as I recall. I would have to go back and look to see for sure. Texas and Wisconsin are the worst, I do know. Sexual relations between first cousins are felonious there, and would most likely be pressed. The others, while it may be felonious, maybe, maybe not. Rhode Island, Ohio, and Illinois have quietly decided to not prosecute any incest cases involving consenting adults, although cousins are not on the list there. Who knows what would actually happen anywhere to be honest. 50 States, 50 different sets of shysters setting and enforcing the rules. However, in most States where there is a marriage prohibition, it is NOT criminal incest. And actually, as crazy as it sounds, in Wisconsin, where it is a felony, and they will come after you if it suits their cause, first cousins can legally marry, and have relations, provided both parties are over 55 (IIRC) and/or one party can produce an affidavit of sterility from a physician. Go figure.... Bottom line, get out of Texas, or don't leave/produce empirical evidence. You have the right to remain silent, I suggest you fully enjoy that right so long as you are in Texas. Your Mom can't just have you thrown in jail. There would have to be evidence rising to probable cause to be arrested, and rising beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. The rantings of a hysterical woman won't cut it. Should she get the two of you on video in an uncompromising position, then, yeah, you in a heap a trouble boy, as the old saying goes. They would most likely prosecute, and put the two of you on the sex offender registry for life. My advice, don't chance it. Go to Colorado, New Mexico, Florida, or Georgia, (or any of the green States here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states ) and don't worry about it.
  25. Shahzad, At 19, you two are certainly old enough to set down and have a long talk and find out how you feel about each other. I know that probably makes you nervous, but, you need to ask her, so you know whether there is the possibility of a future together or not. Now is the time to find out, before you are older, and have wasted time either not being together if she does feel the same, or not looking further for your life partner if she is not interested. You didn't mention where you are, so I won't either, but I did have a little peek. You are lucky, in that where you are, it is not only quite common for cousins to marry, but many times is arranged for you. This could be another option you would want to explore. Would your parents agree, and possibly arrange a marriage if she were to be open to the idea? Would they be willing to help you convince her, without putting undue pressure on her? You don't want to push her, but, at the same time, you don't want to overlook any genuine assistance you may be able to have. Have you spoke with your father about this? How about her father? I think this would show great respect to ask their advice on this matter. If they are open to the idea, perhaps you would wish to bring her mother into the conversation. Her mother could be most influential in convincing her I would think. While my knowledge of your country and culture is limited, I do get the impression my advice would be sound there.
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