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Hawk

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Posts posted by Hawk


  1. nessa76,

    True, but in India, with the general attitude on the subject, I personally advise everyone from there to keep it on the WAY down low. At least until you find out that you are both on the same page and feel strongly enough to face it, and then to do what you must to make a life together. 

    The culture there is considerably different than what we are use to in the West. With, (again, so far as we can tell) second cousins being legal, they could always just go get a marriage license, get married, and let the poo hit the fan. Once they are legally married, the family can freak out all they want to, but there isn't a whole lot they can do about it. As far as first cousins there go, I ALWAYS recommend for them to quietly prepare to move somewhere else, where their marriage would be legal. These preparations have to be done quietly too. We had a case of a couple that (IIRC) were cross first cousins, were in the South of India, where it is allowed, they got married legally, then when they went to the family and announced it, they were promptly separated, and the wife was locked in her parents' house, and was not allowed any contact with her lawful husband. I think you can probably guess how I would handle that situation, but if not, let's just say it would involve a very bad attitude and a baseball bat. Of course, that's India as well. Here in the West, we just call the popo, let them know she is being held against her will, and he is being threatened with bodily harm, and somebody goes to jail. That may or may not be an option in India. I'm not sure how involved the Indian authorities would be willing to get in domestic situations where the actions were based on the existing cultural standards of the family pretty much owning the children for life. Or, THINKING they do at any rate.

    All of this is a little far out in front of geek93 also. So far as he has said, he has no indication of whether or not she shares any similar feelings. He has to determine this first. If she does, he has to keep her from being scared or intimidated. No small feat. But, if the feelings are mutual, they agree that they want to be together, then they have to build the friendship to where they are unshakable. That needs to be done very discretely. If all of that goes as planned, then they do what they have to, to follow through. 


  2. what to do? join the forum and start your own thread. good grief, someone explain why suddenly every 'guest' that shows up here is posting in THIS thread?

    Probably because it is a topic which is on the mind of a good percentage of the folks who find their way here. Which goes to your point as well, Roma. It may be old, but, at almost 171 thousand views, as best as I can tell without searching back through all the threads, it is the most viewed thread here by far. The next most viewed thread, with just a cursory check, it the "first time you kissed your cousin" thread. It has a little less than half as many, at 80 some odd thousand views. I know the spiders have ran that total up considerably. I see spiders on those threads regularly. Which means they are doing their job as well, gleaning information relative to the searches they receive. I assume when someone has feelings for a cousin, or has kissed a cousin, and there is confusion as to what the emotions are that accompany such, the search engine is your friend. I'll also assume that if one were to google " I think I like my cousin" or I kissed my cousin", these threads would be either at the top of the search, or very near to it.

    I wonder if there would be a way to attach a message to the reply button for only this thread, such as is automatically triggered when an old thread gets "Lazarus'd"? Something to the effect of "Feel free to post in this thread, but be aware if you would like to have advice, please post in the General Topic section 'Help?Advice' as well".  

    Seeing as how this thread may very well be the "front door" of the sight, in a manner of speaking, my personal opinion is, let's not lock it. LadyC, perhaps you, Boss, or CM could figure out a way to attach a message to this thread, either as a header at the top of each page, or "red letter" advisory before posting in it. My expertise and privileges are pretty much limited to the guard dog who swings the banhammer, so I don't think I would be able to do it, if I could figure out how to. Just my $.02....


  3. Ek Jigyasu,

     

    I've removed your FB profile just as I would have if you had posted your e-mail. Whether you realize it or not, you are asking for trouble, such as blackmail and spam. We don't allow open posting of e-mail addresses, and, as a Mod, I'm going to take it upon myself to now add FB profiles to that. I have no doubt the other Mods and Admins will concur.

    I'm going to link you to another thread I locked. When I do, you'll see why I locked it, and why I'm linking this thread to it. Please follow my advice as spelled out in that thread.

    https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,7972.0.html


  4. Dhannu singh,

    I approved your post so I may educate you perhaps. We do realize that in India, according to customs, cousins are like siblings. However, scientifically, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS COUSIN SISTER OR COUSIN BROTHER. PERIOD. This notion of yours is the major part of why there is so much wailing and gnashing of teeth among hysterical family members, when cousins happen to fall in love in India.

    For the life of me, I will never understand how a population that is generally accepted as being among the best scientifically educated in the world does not seem to be able to grasp this fact. The only thing I can figure is that, just as other fanatical religious believer across  the globe, they are so steeped in the tradition, they refuse to face the science.

    Let me ask you this, oh wise swami. Once your mother reaches the age of 38-40, is she considered to be your "grandmother mother", and therefore lot allowed to re-marry if widowed or divorced, and/or prohibited from having children? Because, genetically, the risks are EXACTLY THE SAME. That, my friend, is a FACT. Not a myth, not a tradition, a FACT.

    Having said that, India is not the only place such notions are held. There are similar notions among other religions, (though, other than Hindu, it isn't prohibited, and there is debate over whether the Hindu texts positively forbid it) and even the non-religious throughout Asia, and even to a degree here in the US. About half the 50 States allow for cousins to marry, the rest don't, or have limited exceptions of some sort.

    Even here, depending on how close-knit the family is, cousins can, and many times do, consider themselves emotionally as close as siblings. I do, actually. We were just in another thread last night going into some of this, and how our families consider older cousins, and first cousins once removed, and even second cousins once removed, to be sort of "surrogate" Uncles and Aunts. I am here because of how close I am to a second cousin of mine. My Mother is an only child, so, on her side, I only have second cousins. This second cousin of mine was born exactly one week to the day after me. As kids, we met. As soon as we did, and realized we were in our momma's bellies at the same time, we were instantly favorite/best cousins. Shortly thereafter, they moved across the street from us. Her and her older sister, and me and my two younger brothers all played together and had a large time. We got closer, to the point that they consider us the brothers they never had, and we consider them the sisters we never had. HOWEVER, we were never, nor are we now, under any sort of delusion that we are actually siblings, having NOT came from the same womb. We know we are what is considered here to be very close to DISTANT cousins. In my experience, at least here in America, (and I realize it is different in India) families are so fractured and dispersed, that many people do not even personally know their second cousins. My Father had three brothers, and two half brothers, so I have quite a few first cousins on that side. But, none of them live anywhere close to me, and I've only met them a handful of times. Most of them, I wouldn't know if they came up and slapped me in the face. I only got to know one of them personally because she lived here for a while when her Dad lived here for a while. The rest of them, I've met, but some only once, and the others not enough to recognize them since we're older. I ain't got a clue about them, and they are certainly nowhere near siblings to me.

    But, as we see with your beliefs, these notions die very hard. That's exactly why my second cousin and I are not together. Second cousins only share 1% more DNA than two totally unrelated people, and there is NO known increase in the risks to any children they may choose to have. However, back when we had out little "moment", this information was nowhere near as accessible as it is now. There was no internet, more less site such as this. I knew we were far enough apart on the family tree that there probably wouldn't be a problem, but, she didn't. She was nervous, I didn't push the issue, and we walked away from it. All for no reason, other than the lack of factual information. This, with her not getting the whole "once removed" generational thing, and thinking we were actually THIRD cousins. She ass-u-me-d we were STILL too close, plus, being so close emotionally, it was pretty intense, in very short order. Overwhelmingly so. Like her, we constantly see reactions such as that out of cousins here. Understandable by some traditions, and, I might add, here in the US, with the dissemination of faulty science back in the 1800's.

    Now, the evidence is in, and the risks have been WAY overblown. Yes, there IS a SLIGHTLY increased risk, but not so much as to even be remotely thought of to prevent other, similarly risky reproductions from occurring. If someone were to propose LEGALLY preventing 40 yr old women from having children, they would probably be taken out and tarred and feathered. They would certainly be dismissed as some sort of unstable. Which brings me back to my sentiments on hysterical families reactions to scientifically similar risks in, not only India, (though it does seem to be the worst) but throughout the world. Do consider going to the main page of the site here,( https://www.cousincouples.com/ ) clicking the menu drop-down, and further educating yourself, like I did some 6 years ago now......


  5. ^^^ Yup, what LadyC said, and that they would do that isn't surprising, at least to me. The young lady mentioned does that with me, and, I'm relatively sure the son does it with my brothers, who he's spent considerably more time with than I. I do see the lad on occasion, but he's such a shy youngster, he's pretty quiet around me. I'm trying to remember if he calls me "Uncle" too, and have a feeling I may have heard him refer to me as such. He lives with his mother, but fairly close to his Dad, and spends considerable time with his Dad. But, his Dad only brings him to our private club on the rare occasion, such as after Little League games for a soda and such. Now that this has been brought up, I'll be sure to pay a little closer attention the next time I see him. :)


  6. leafoflove,

    Funny you should say that actually. "Uncle" ______ ___'s son, who calls Mom and Cuz's Mom "Aunt", has a daughter and son. I've not spent so much time around the son, but the daughter, when she was young, was flower girl in my last wedding. She's grown into a charming young woman, and, having the history, calls ME "Uncle"_____. So yeah, don't feel too bad about it, take it as a compliment, and the term of endearment that it is....


  7. leafoflove,

    And, your Grandma's Sister's Daughter, whom you have listed as "Aunt" is actually your Mother's first cousin, making her your 1st cousin once removed, not Aunt. Meaning, as LadyC said, the primary relationship horizontally on the family tree is first cousins, between her Mom and your Mom. You are "one generation removed" from that level, hence, 1st cousins once removed, or as abbreviated around here, 1C1R. 

    Don't feel too bad about it though. Me and mine are second cousins. Our Grandfathers were brothers. Our Mom's have a male first cousin by our Grandfathers' youngest brother. We started out calling him "Uncle" ______ ____, probably 30 years ago or so, just busting his chops, trying to make him feel old, basically just pulling his chain. Well, it ended up sticking. And, in the process, his son calls Mom and Cuz's Mom "Aunt". Mom and "Uncle" ______ ____ were only children, and Cuz's Mom may as well have been. (She had a several years older half-brother) Growing up, they were a lot like siblings. Actually, they still are. They drive each other crazy at times, LOL. So, depending on how close the family is, at least in our case, it isn't really unusual to sort of blur the lines like that.....


  8. geek93,

    It's hard to beat what we call the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin, ...." line to find out how she feels about you. She may feel the same, and say something like "Yeah, I know what you mean, it sux that we're cousins." If she does, you know she feels at least somewhat the same, and you can slowly take the conversation further. If she freaks out and says "Eww, no way, we're cousins", you have the out of saying "Yeah, I said IF. IF we WEREN'T cousins", then you drop it, and act like nothing ever happened. It gives her something to think about, and she certainly wouldn't be the first to come back at some later date and say "You know, I got thinking about that "if we weren't cousins thing, and ...."

    Anyhow, if you do go there, do it quietly, face to face, when the two of you have some alone time, and are enjoying each others' company. You'll know when. It will just feel like the time to say it. But, do yourself a favor, and don't let family hear it. Even though so far as we know, second cousins are legal in India, that doesn't mean that family wouldn't still have a major meltdown. Unless and until you are both on the same page with it, that's drama you don't need. If you two do find out you feel the same way, go back and read my advice in that thread if the drama is bad....


  9. Tom182,

    You're smart in not sending it, I'm telling you. It may be more daunting, and you will have to man up, but face to face when the time is right is, IMHO, the ONLY way to do it. You may be being selfish, but yes, we are all only human, and we get impatient. Believe me when I tell you you DO need a distraction. Until such time as there would be the possibility of a relationship, it's none of your parent's business. Even if they wouldn't care, why have them laugh you off over it??? Bide your time. I don't recall how old you are, but I'm going to go back and look. My intention is to make a point.

    Ok, you're 23. When I was 20, my same age (second) cousin and I were together, albeit briefly. Before this, we were close. We were, and still are favorite/best cousins. We are damn near the same age, born a week apart on each other's due date. We'd met, OK? So, 32 years ago next month, we partied it up like rock stars for a couple weeks, and took our love and affection (that had been a mutual given, since we were kids) to a whole nuther (ultimate) level. We'd never had the "Aww, I love you this much" talk. We had it by instinct. One thing just led to another, in very short order. It was so intense, so fast, that she freaked out. I would be lying if I didn't say it didn't freak me out a little. But, I didn't care what ANYBODY would have said about it. It felt so right and so deep, I would have taken us to the ends of the Earth to escape any drama, had she been willing. Had I made it that clear, maybe she would have, but, I didn't make it clear enough, because I didn't want to push her. So, we walked away from it, and the whole thing was so awkward it damn near ruined our underlying relationship. It didn't, but our feelings had to be put WAY WAY WAY down low. To the point that we avoided being alone with each other afterwards. Probably for good reason. Now, we've aired it all out and we're good with it. When I first got here, I was married, she still has her long time BF. We have no stomach for cheating. I now have a very good GF. When I went through the divorce, I'm sure, if I had chosen to do so, I could have pushed her to break up with her BF, and come with me. The family would have openly thanked me for it. (I thought about it, for about 10 minutes, since I'd been accused of it a couple times anyhow, but thought better of it, and her.) But, THAT IS NOT MY PLACE. Her relationship is her deal. The difference is, we know how we feel about each other. And we STILL, WILL NOT cheat. I have no doubt, if I called her up right now, and told her I needed her, and I needed to see her, and I was on my way, she would give me an address, and (I think it's about 3 hours away) her door would be unlocked when I got there. And, unless her BF was there, (which he probably isn't) I could curl right up in the bed with her, and nothing would happen. But, If I really wanted to be a cad, I could probably push the issue, and heat things up. But guess what? In the morning, when we woke up, and the reality of what we had done sat in, it would be another 30 years of avoidance, and this time, for a very good reason. How could she look in my eyes knowing she had cheated? How could I look in her eyes knowing I'd talked her into it? You think telling her face to face when she's finally available is daunting, try going about it wrong. If you absolutely cannot have any other relationship than with her, then you wait. If you aren't willing to wait, then I suggest you look elsewhere, because she deserves better than to be put in a situation.

    Having openly told you all of this, I want you to know, I've stuck around here to advise members and guests 10 years or so younger than you to put their feelings on the back burner, and bide their time. They have all the time in the world, and I'm telling you, so do you. If she's worth it, you'll wait. If you don't, you'll screw it up, and never have a chance with her anyhow. In the meantime, I suggest you get out and see the sites. Hell, date some. It doesn't have to be too serious. Go out to eat, catch a movie, find a girl friend. It doesn't have to be a girlfriend. Just because you make up your mind to wait on her doesn't mean you have to do it in the basement. You never know, you may find someone who distracts you from thinking about your cousin. I know that no matter how I may feel about my cousin, if we were together, I don't see any way it could be any better than it is with the girl I'm with now. With a little work, it might could be AS good, because Cuz IS a good woman. But, I'm not sure how it could actually be better. Right now, I'm tellin' ya kids, this old goat is livin' the life o Riley. I'll tell you right now, there IS someone out there for you. It may be your cousin, in which case you wait. But it may not be her either, and if you set around pining too long, you could just miss out.... 

    I always say these things are about timing. Me and mine had our moment, and the timing was never right after that, and never will be now. Timing as in face time, when the timing is right and she doesn't have a SO. Timing in the conversation, when it turns to an appropriate time to at least drop the old "If you weren't my cousin" shtick. The timing has to be right, and with the situation being what it is, now ain't the time. 


  10. geek93,

    If she's the daughter of your uncle, then she is your first cousin. If this uncle is actually your great-uncle, then she is your first cousin once removed.

    In India, it depends on what your religion is, and where you are as to where you go with this. If this uncle is your mother's brother, and you are in the South of India, (and don't ask me where the line is, you know better than I do) and you are Hindu, so far as I can tell, it is legal. If however, he is your father's brother, and you are Hindu, it doesn't matter where you are in India, it isn't allowed. (Same with mother's sister's daughter= parallel cousins) However, if you are Christian or Muslim, none of that matters, and first cousins on out are legal.

    I'm going to link you to a thread I locked. Once you read it, you will see why I locked it. I'm not saying you would want what was asked, that caused it to be locked. But, it has the advice that has become the general consensus of the mods and admins here. Read it carefully.

    If by chance you have done the math correctly, and she is actually your second cousin, SO FAR AS WE KNOW, it is legal everywhere in India. But that does not mean you won't face some of the stupidest drama you've ever seen. At the first hint of such BS, see my advice in this thread.....

    https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,7972.0.html


  11. WM126,

    Well, first off, do a little reading around here, and see if you can find what we call my "broken record speech" to young members. If you can't, get back with me, and I'll pm you a rather windy version I need to polish up a bit, and see if we can make a sticky out of it. I (hopefully) am laid off for at least a few more weeks, and will try to find the time to do so.

    Next, you are wrong. Just because you are in your mid-teens does not mean nobody cares. I'm an old fart, in my 50's now, but I've not killed so many brain cells that I don't remember 15. I got in here to advise a young member a couple years older than you at the time. Then, once I was here, I was amazed at how many young members there were in some variation of a similar situation. So, from a perspective of what NOT to do, I've stuck around to try to guide our young members, and by extension, lurkers, as to how to proceed.

    I'll not bore you with too many specifics of the broken record speech, but the basics are: Focus on your education, put it all on the back burner and the down low for the time being, build the friendship, get smart and get out on your own, then, when your ready, go for it.

    In the meanwhile, and as a part of building the friendship, when the moment seems right, (sometime during this spring break thing?) test the waters with what we call the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin, .... " line. You two are certainly old enough to test the waters with this innocuous little ice-breaker. If she says something to the effect of "Yeah, sux don't it? You're pretty much my type" or something like that, you know you can ease the conversation a little further. If, on the other hand she say "Ewww, what are you talking about, we're cousins", you have the out of saying "I said IF, you know, IF we WEREN'T cousins..." and then DROP IT. The ball will be in her court, and it gives her food for thought. And, trust me, think about it she will. It may take 5 years, (and I personally, from personal experience would like to see it take even a little longer than that) but she would not be the first one to come back at some point in the future, and say "You know, I was thinking about that 'if we weren't cousins thing, and ...." The thing you have to keep in mind is, going forward, timing will be everything. If you find out she feels the same, it isn't out of the question to kiss the girl. BUT, at your age, do keep the hormones in check. Even though you are in the unique situation of having at least her Mom not so subtly nudging you two together, if you get too carried away with some neeked shenanigans, and get caught in some sort of compromising position, all of that will go away. For the time being, and at your age, I'll not say NO physical, but you'll do well indeed to keep it under control at the very least until you two are of age. I personally would encourage you to stay close, get closer, but keep it in check until somewhere closer to 20ish, or my personal preference of 22ish or so. By then, you should know where your going with your lives, and if there's a little history, and it's went well, with no drama, it's a LOT easier to proceed. Plus, you've got a GF, she's got a BF, and that's all fine and good for now. Do a little dating as you go. You're learning the ropes of how to deal with the opposite sex. And you have some learning to do yet at your age, believe me. 

    And, since I'm throwing cold water on you, let me toss on a good cold shower. You didn't mention where you are, so DON'T. But, as a mod, I can have a little peek. YOU DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HER WHERE YOU ARE. That, provided my look-up is right. You say you were raised together until a few years ago, and now you don't see her so much. By that, I'm assuming they moved. If they are in the same State, then you don't want any shenanigans at hers if you're there either. If they moved out of state, then go to this page: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states , look up which State she's in, and see what your legal drama there may be. If it shows as a green color, it's not an issue. If it's anything else, the legalities are going to vary. Stay anonymous, and don't say where you are, or where she is, but do consider this going forward. If you are in the State I'm showing you in, you can find yourself in quite the legal pickle if you get caught in an uncompromising position. I don't want to discourage you from any of the advice I've given you, not in any way. Just another reason to keep your pants on, LOL. I just want you to know, that if things do go good, and at some point you two DO become an item, it will be somewhere else. All the more important to get an education or learn a skill/trade that will allow you to be able to go elsewhere for work. If you're now even MORE confused, feel free to PM me, and we'll privately go into a few more of the "intricacies" of your situation. You're in nowhere near the worst position we've seen, but, if things go well, you will be needing further guidance at some point. That's why we're here. Take advantage of this place. For now, I've got a little more time to kill than usual, and I check in a few times a day. I'll be glad to help you any way I can. 


  12. loli,

    I'm not sure of any currently active members who have children together. I know there have been several couples here who have posted about their children. The old picture thread even had several pictures. One of our former admins and his cousin had a son, a fine young man who graduated with honors. Several others posted either pics and/or stories of how their children were fine. I only know of one member who's children had the issues noted as being a possibility. And I don't want to make light of it in any way either. The children did have a quite serious condition. But, they were getting the proper medical treatment, and at the last we heard, all survived. She's not posted in quite some time, so I'm not sure if the effects have lessened as they have gotten older.

    We always advise our members who are thinking of starting a family to get genetic counseling. We would certainly encourage you to do so. If you get the green light from your GC, we would expect your OB doctor to be fully informed, and most likely keep a close eye on your pregnancy. Do remember, the chances are high that you would NOT have any problems. The risks are the same as with an older mother, say over the age of ~38yrs old or so. Society generally accepts that risk, so it comes down to your personal assessment of whether such a risk is acceptable. As with an older mother, you would expect your pregnancy to be closely monitored. So, first things first, talk to a genetic counselor, and weigh your decision based on their conclusion. Just as we have legal facts posted on the main page, we're not lawyers. We have genetic facts posted, and links to the studies, but we personally are not GC's, and can only advise you to seek their counsel to make a fully informed decision. 

    If there are members or guests with children by their cousin, please do pipe in here, and tell of your experience....


  13. Akshay,

    Once again, you need to double check and be absolutely sure about the legalities of it, BUT, if the breakdown looks like what I posted, so far as we know, being here in the US and having a hard enough time deciphering OUR laws, it should be legal.

    I'm also curious as to if she shares your feelings, and is willing to withstand the drama. Many times the woman faces much more crap than the man. She'll have to be willing to put her foot down too, and stand by you. 


  14. Tom182,

    Feel free to make the changes LadyC has recommended, save them to that file, then save the file, and for the time being DON'T send it. If she's with someone else, you stay aware of her relationship status FROM A DISTANCE. If she gets out of the relationship, get in contact, and if things go well enough, THEN send it.

    I know it's eating you up holding it inside. But, if she's happily with someone, you're risking coming off as creeping on her, and her having a major freak-out on you. Even if she's NOT in the happiest of relationships, all of this needs to be done face to face. It also needs to be done when she is fully available, or at the very least obviously unhappy enough in the relationship to be a the point of walking away from it. In the meanwhile, put this on the back shelf, and get out, see the sights, and get yourself distracted. Maybe start working out, take a night class, go hiking regularly, SOMETHING to distract you.

    Consider if you were in a relationship, may (or worse, may not) have similar feelings, and SHE sent something like that to you. At the very least it would be confusing. Consider if you had a GF, and some cat (cousin or not) sent something like that, and you saw it on her phone. You'd be wanting to know what the hell was going on. Would you believe her if she told you "Nothing. I don't know where this is coming from out of him. We're only friends/cousins." If you're like most men, you'd say "Yeah, SURE" and it would start a big ole bunch of crap she doesn't need. I seriously doubt she'd EVER be in any sort of mood to discuss it with you face to face either. These things are all about timing. So long as she's attached, no matter how loosely, it isn't the time. As I said, stay aware of her relationship status, and if it should change, THEN the time is more conducive. And, I would first start out with the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin,..." line, then if the response was favorable enough, go into all the rest of it. I just don't see how texts or any other social media outlet can be anything other than shooting yourself in the foot unless the circumstances are just damn near perfect for it.

    I'm going to link this over to MrClassified007 in his thread too, as he's in quite a similar situation, and I'm a lazy old fart and don't want to type it again.  :laugh:


  15. Just someone also inlove,

    If you would, go back up and read my advice to the OP in this thread. It's going to be a little different in your case, because you've already had the old "if you weren't my cousin" talk. You are also borderline old enough to have what we here loosely call "The Talk", where you openly discuss your feelings with each other in a sober and adult manner.

    You mentioned your country being a possible problem, as well as family. You (wisely, IMHO) didn't mention what country, so, I won't either. But, kinda another one of those "good news/bad news" deals for you. As a mod, I can, and do, avail myself of the privilege of having a little peek when it's an issue. Some good news. You aren't in what we consider the worst country as far as cousin couples goes. That title goes to India, by far. Where you are, as well as India, (so far as we can tell) and everywhere else we know of, second cousins are legal to marry. That's the good news. Now, for some not so good news, with a little not so bad news thrown in. Although it's legal there for second cousins, there is quite the considerable cultural bias against it. Not as bad as India, as I mentioned, but, almost right up there with it. Your drama out of family may or may not be as bad. Unlike there, you would probably not face threats of violence toward you, or suicide by them, to try to control you, or make you change your mind. But, the pressure could still be considerable. So, for now, go back up and read the advice about keeping it on the down low for a couple more years or so at least, focus on your studies and parlaying that into gainful employment, get out on your own, keep building the friendship and trust, and once you are older and ready, THEN go for it, and don't let ANYBODY talk you out of it....


  16. Akshay,

    I'm going to try to follow this, tell me if I've got it right.

        Woman        Sister    (siblings)

     

    Your grandpa    Her Mom  (1st cousins)

    Your Mom        Her          (2nd cousins)

    You

    If this is how it looks, then you two are second cousins (primary relationship of her and your Mom) "once" (one generation in the family tree) removed. That is second cousins once removed. If I'm reading it as your Great-grandmother's sister's grand-daughter, this is how you are related.

    So far as we know, from second cousins on out, it is legal to marry everywhere we know of in the world. I'm not sure where Tamil Nadu is, so, I'll go have a little peek on my IP checker to be sure....      Ok, I see it is in South India. Good news, bad news. The good news is, #1, as I said, so far as we know, it is legal, and, #2, in South India, there is not quite as strong of a cultural taboo as in the North of India against cousin couples. HOWEVER, if I were a betting man, I would bet that you would STILL have all kinds of the stupidest drama you have ever seen in your life. Expect it.

    Genetically, you two share as much DNA as totally unrelated couples share. There would be NO expected adverse effects on any children you two may choose to have, as far as the known  issues between first cousin couples. Sleep easy over that. 

    If it were me, here's how I would handle it. Since there is a set of Marriage Act's in India, regarding the major religions there, and so far as we know, in the Hindu Marriage Act, it is legal, I would first verify that, to be sure. If it is, and there is an Act, I will assume there is an accompanying marriage license that is issued. I would legally obtain the license. I would then show the license, and announce the engagement. I would announce that your wishes are for everyone to  participate, and be happy about the good news. I would also let it be very well known that anyone who does not agree, and would not wish to be a part of it would gladly be excused from participating. If NOBODY agrees, and wishes to participate, you simple have a civil wedding, OR, find religious leaders who will perform the marriage, unrelated witnesses if needed, and go that route. That the marriage can be stopped WOULD NOT BE AN OPTION. Listening to BS drama about it WOULD NOT BE TOLERATED. You will have to put your foot down hard, stand your ground, and stick to it. You will have to be more stubborn than them. No small feat probably, but certainly doable. 

    I wish you the very best of luck..... :grin:


  17. cross514,

    I'll agree with LadyC, and perhaps give you a little further food for thought.

    One, there are no known MILD disorders directly related to offspring of cousins that I'm aware of. There may be varying degrees of severity, but the conditions we're talking about here are quite serious indeed. If you had one of them, you'd know it. By the same token, they are extremely rare, even among communities where arranged cousin marriages are the norm. Only in select communities are the exaggerated numbers noted. And those are presumed to be related to a phenomenon called "Founders Effect" or some such. I don't recall the specifics, but line breeding and interbreeding are a factor in it, but not the only one. If you're so inclined, look it up. Offspring afflicted in this manner are in no condition to wax eloquent on the matter, as is your effort. Believe me when I tell you, if you were missing just one gene, depending on which one, you wouldn't be here typing. If you were missing a chromosome, depending on which one it is, you wouldn't be setting there typing. You've got all your parts and pieces, don't worry.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that you find it gross because society as a whole has come, over the last 150 yrs or so, to find it gross. Looking at the history and actual genetics of it, there is nothing gross about it. Looking at it religiously, (other than in Hinduism, and the actual facts of what it says is open to some interpretation) it is not considered gross, and in certain instances, has been commanded. Very close to 80% of all marriages throughout history have been between first or second cousins. 15 billion people, or whatever the number would be, can't all be wrong, or gross. Whether we would like to admit it or not, we're all somewhere down the line out of such marriages. I'll venture a relatively conservative guess that you're in good company with at least a half a billion people on the planet at this very moment, who are the offspring of cousins. The actual number could be twice that, I'm not sure. You could probably look that up too and get some sort of accurate number. Suffice it to say, you're not alone by a long shot.

    Also, many "arranged" marriages don't work out, and are not happy. BUT, many more "love" marriages end up not happy and end in divorce. Like my parents for example. My cousin's parents. My GF's parents. I have to put more effort into figuring out which of my friends parents AREN'T divorced, than which ones are. Although it didn't work that way in the case of your parents, the statistics are that arranged marriages, cousins or not, have a much higher success rate. While initially the parties may not be in love, the likelihood of them falling in love over time, and that love deepening over time, is a common noted observation. By you saying it was "forced" and not "arranged" it could fall outside the typical definition of such marriages, but if it does fit that bill, these stats are a given.

    Keep in mind too, that this site tends to deal with cousins that are not forced together, but who love each other and are much more often forced APART. Or at least a very strong effort is made to do so. The effort is made to keep them apart because of all the unfounded biases you are feeling, as a result of the "conventional wisdom" on the subject as it has come to be. HOWEVER, do not feel that we are not here to help you with the feelings you have, and perhaps clearing up common misconceptions that have been forced on you. Apparently you ARE bright, so, I would encourage you to go to the main page, https://www.cousincouples.com/ have a look around, check out the actual facts, and see if it doesn't make you feel a little better about yourself, and considerably more knowledgeable than the average schmuck walking around spouting "facts" to you, of which they know nothing about.

    Even though I was one of the bigger kids my age growing up, I had my share of being picked on because of my looks. "Hows the weather up there? HAHAHA" Well, I finally had an arse full of it, and I would stick out my tongue and blow slobbers at them and say "Not bad, but I see it's raining down there, HAHAHA" It didn't take but a few times to stop the weather jokes, but, it just switched to the size of my feet, my haircut, my this, my that. Shallow people will always find a way to belittle you, in order to make themselves feel bigger. You may as well start sticking up for yourself now. Yeah, you may get scuffed up a time or two, I did, but sooner or later it will stop. At 6'3" and about 230#, I don't get any weather jokes and BS anymore. I'm going to say it's been over 20 years since someone wanted to try me on for size too. Funny how that works....   


  18. sam675,

     

    My advice still stands, and, I'll add that she has to know that culturally, even though her parents aren't cousins like yours, it isn't something to totally rule out of hand. She genuinely may not see you in the same light as you see her, and you may have to face that, hard as that my be. But, I'm telling you, she's thinking. Right now, she's got you in the "friendzone". Good for her, but sux being you, feeling the way you do. While it's hard to get out of the friendzone, it's not impossible. It usually takes her getting crapped on by some asshat, to realize she need not put up with such, when you are there, and a viable option. Rather unpleasant to watch, from your perspective, but do resist any temptation to say "I told you so" if that should happen. I really do get the feeling the little wheels in her head are starting to turn. I mean, after she said "I won't bring it up, I promise", what's the first thing she did? She brought it up! Just like I said she would, if I do say so myself, LOL (I'll try not to break my arm patting myself on the back here, ok? LOL) The only difference is, I thought it would take her longer.... :wink:

    We saw a very similar scenario out of the guy that got me wound up to actually join and post in this forum several years ago. He was considerably more full of angst than you, but, they were considerably younger than you too. The scenario was playing out quite similar though. She saw it as an impossibility, got herself a BF, and our boy was devastated. She wanted her cake, and to eat it too. She had him in the friendzone, and wanted her BF to be the BF, and him to be her best friend. I told him he should remind her that if she has a BF, the BF has to be the best friend, and he has to make himself scarce. So, that's what he did. It didn't take but a couple days for the BF to be out of the picture, because, in the end, our boy was more important to her than this BF would be. She decided she would go for it with our boy here. Mind you, this is in the US, and in the same State as me. In this State, it isn't against the law, but, they'll not be able to legally marry here either. He's not been here in forever, but, the last we heard from him, they were quite the item, they were at different Uni's, alternating weekend travel between them to see each other, and had become masters at hiding it from family. One difference in your case is, you (I'm assuming) wouldn't have to hide it from family, as it's a fairly accepted practice.

    Bide your time son. She could be coming around. I would keep it at 2-3 times a week seeing her too. Since you told her, she wants it to be even more? Mmmm Nah. You're not a glutton for punishment. If it all has to be platonic and casual, then casual it is. You start jumping at her beckon call, and she'll be expecting it. Looks needy on your part, even if it's HER that can't keep from bringing it up now, and not you. When she brings it up, be a good sport, and play along. After a couple more times, say maybe the third time she does it, slide in close to her, and whisper in her ear "Now who's bringing it up? Is someone starting to think 'If I wasn't his cousin, I'd be his GF' "? She'll blush, and you'll know. Then, you don't let her deny it, and you make her spill her REAL feelings, because it will be a little hard to deny it at that point.

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