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Posts posted by Hawk

  1. arjun55,

    Roma is right. We HIGHLY discourage these fake wedding deals. Eventually, they WILL be found out, and you will have 4 times the drama. Your best option is for you to move to the UK where it IS legal, and, if she's so inclined as you, get married. Find your own roof, and your own way. I'm not real sure as to how you would have a harder life in the UK than you would pretty much anywhere in Asia. Since this sort of scheme seems to be the best idea you've seen, I'll assume you are Hindu Indian. That is where the vast majority of these schemes get concocted. Unless you are at the upper end of an upper caste, I would think whatever you do in the UK would be a step up. I would also assume if you are of an upper caste, even if much of your resources were denied you over this, you would still have some wherewithal to make a go of it in the UK.

    I'll go ahead and link a thread I locked, as I said I would, when this sort of thing popped up again. https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,7972.0.html 

    Forgive me if I have wrongly assumed you are from India. My look-up does show you as NOT being in India, but, I seriously doubt you are where it shows you as being, as that is a known physical site of numerous proxies, and it isn't exactly in Asia. You aren't directly showing as being on a proxy, but then again, that's the idea, and it's also why I like the idea of running on a proxy. Bad for me to try to determine which country or State you are in, so as to properly advise you, but good on you for security reasons. Therefore, if I have wrongly assumed you are Hindu Indian, feel free to further enlighten me as to your country (I don't need anything anymore specific than that) and general religious/cultural background. The advice may change slightly, but, I have a feeling regardless of any of that being different, (say, you are Buddhist Chinese) I'm still going to want to see you in the UK. It is legally a LOT more friendly, and has considerably more legal protections for your physical safety too. 

  2. rtorres07,

    Well, if he's backing up, it's probably because of BS drama out of his Mom or someone in the family. He's old enough to not put up with it. He needs to step up and nip it now, before he finds himself without you, choking on her apron strings.

    You need to let him know that there is no legitimate reason the two of you can't be together. All he has to do is put his foot down and not accept any grief or drama over it. If he still won't grow a set and stand up to them, then, as hard as it is, you may have to move on. If YOU have no stomach for their BS, that may as well include YOU moving somewhere else, without him, or them, and fully starting over. You may hold out hope for a while, but don't waste your life waiting. And, if you do move on and find someone else, DON'T GO BACK if at some point in the future he changes his mind. These things are all about timing. For me and mine, when we were your age, we were still too young, walked away, and the timing was never right again. Now, it never will be. We're good with that, but, looking back, we do realize if we did have it all to do over again, we would have handled it differently. That doesn't necessarily mean we'd be together, just that we would have probably given it a chance. And, had we given it a chance, odds are we would have made it. But, water under the bridge and all that. Too late now. 

    I do know, that if we had been 22 instead of 20, by then, I was considerably more nervy, and I would have maybe not pushed her, but dug into the reasons she was scared, and let her know I would handle the drama. By that age, I was fully in "if you don't like it, take a big flying kiss outta my backside" mode, and everybody knew it. That made for some bad decisions on my part, but everybody let me make them, and let me pick myself up and dust myself off when I fell on my face. It made me a lot smarter in the end too.

    Maybe you can wait on him to get to that point, but, I'll tell you right now, don't wait too long......

  3. Kylie123,

    You're close, but not exactly how I would handle it.


    Kylie123 is right in that you don't want to shut her out and get upset about it. BUT, for now, the topic is dropped. Leave it dropped. She's admitted in the back of her mind occasionally she DOES entertain the thought. LET HER, without bringing it to the fore. Sooner or later, if she thinks about it enough to warm to the idea, she'll find the opportunity to bring it up again. The conversation will probably start out along the lines of " Now I don't want to upset you, but...." When it does, you DON'T let it upset you. If she brings it up, it's because she's considering it, but still conflicted. She will be looking for something on your part to tip the scales one way or the other. My advice is, when (of course, this is an IF too now) such a conversation happens, you say "I won't get upset, BUT, I want to show you something before we get real deep into this conversation". Then, take her to the main page here, and show her the facts. Tell her you found this place when you started realizing there were some deeper feelings on your part, and YOU were conflicted about them. If she has questions, both of you look around until you find the factual answers to them. If it goes to the further topics of "What will the family think/How would we explain it to family/other people, you come to the forum here, and read the stickies on those topics. Until she brings it up though, leave it stewing on her back burner. If it stews long enough, it will come to a boil, and she won't be able to contain it. If during that time, she sees that the relationship hasn't gotten weird, she'll have a pretty good indication that, so long as she doesn't make it weird, she can still broach the topic, even if briefly, then back off if necessary. Bide your time. She's thinking. LOL Dangerous I know, but, you've given her food for thought. Let it simmer. I'm telling you, sooner or later, if nothing else, she'll drop the "if we weren't cousins" line or SOMETHING to bring it back up. It may take weeks, months, or a year even. But, I'm telling you, I think she's stewing it over, and she will bring it back up. You just have to be the cool character until she does.  

  4. rtorres07,

    Your biggest issue at hand is his current relationship with the mother of his children. If it isn't completely over and settled, you need to back off until it is. You don't mention where you are, and I won't either. We stay anonymous here, and I do my best as a mod to see to it. (* see p.s.) Anyhow, where you are, (provided my look-up is correct, and it's pretty good) it's perfectly legal for you two to have whatever relationship you choose, up to and including marriage. So, that takes away the "cousin" issue as far as custody/visitation of his kids is concerned. BUT, that needs to be settled first, and you don't need to be the issue, cousin or not. You both cool the jets, and let him get to a point he's fully available. Unless he's already fully out of this relationship with her, you're the third wheel.

    If and when that happens, it doesn't matter what your family says. Legally, they can't keep you two from seeing each other, and in the US, the law is the only thing that can physically keep you two from being together. Well, other than if you live under their roof, they can keep it from happening there, and put you out from under their roof if they don't agree with it happening elsewhere. Big whoop. You need to be out and independent anyhow, as far as I'm concerned. I always recommend getting at least a two bedroom place, which, with kids, would mean at least a three bedroom place. One bedroom for him, one for you, and at least one for the kids. Everyone has their own space. Keeps up appearances for nosy ex-s and family, and gives everyone their own space. When the kids are elsewhere, the actual sleeping arrangements are NOT for public consumption. They only know for sure what's going on if you tell them what's going on, and at 20 years old, it ISN'T any of their business, no matter if they think it is or not. They get their life to run and make the decisions in, not theirs AND yours. A lot of people don't get that, but it should be made clear.

    Feel free to bring him here and show him this thread. Feel free to go here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states and print off the information for the State you are in, to pass out amongst the drama queens. Let them know there is no legal leg to stand on in keeping the two of you apart or the kids away from him. Beyond that, tell them nothing of the actual physical nature of your relationship. It's none of their business...... 

    Having said all that, and posting it, I realize I didn't really answer your initial questions. So, since you're not the first to ask by a long shot, there happens to be a couple stickies on the subject. They are here: https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,2483.0.html and here: https://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php/topic,1444.0.html

    p.s. You are a little less anonymous than I usually like to see, BUT a few others here are less anonymous, it's legal where you are, and if you're comfortable, we're comfortable. And, really, so what if someone you know does stumble upon this? Do as I've advised, and what can they do? Blackmail you? Not really, you tell them to mind their own business. If they read this, I've said it, and if they should be foolish enough to post their rantings here, I'll tell them directly. THAT wouldn't be a first either. I've done it before, and would revel in doing it again.  :wink:  :grin:

  5. Hey I recently just got in touch with my 2nd cousin a couple weeks ago. Things seemed normal at first cuz I know he is a big flirt but things started to get weird after a while. It seems like now after he has seen me for the first time since I was 18 and now i am 21 he seems like he is now physically attracted to me. But the fact that he is my cousin, married and 58 years old creeps me out. I wanna believe he is not attracted to me that way and just being nice. But then he started calling me, texting me, and talking to me like as if he wanted to have a real DL relationship with me. I dont know what to do cuz i am still unsure.


    You shut him down, tell him he's a little too long in the tooth for you, and really should focus on his marriage....

  6. andolin,

    I agree with LadyC, and I'll add my two cents if you don't mind.

    I agree that this probably won't come as any shock to your Mom. Or anyone else in the family for that matter. You now understand why we tell our young members to keep it on the down low until you are of age, ( I personally recommend to wait until right about the age you presently are) and THEN go for it. I'll also remind you to NOT let this interfere with your studies. You are also most likely a case study for why I always say that initially, the keeping it under wraps/sneaking around is exhilarating, but eventually becomes drudgery. You're so happy, you just want to stand on the top of the world and shout it out.

    However, if it were me, I would consider a slightly less overt approach. Many here have adopted some version of how I would handle it. Personally, I would tell the Mothers, and let those chips fall where they may. The rest of the family will either be informed by them, or catch on eventually. In the end, it isn't really any skin off their backside either way. It is perfectly legal in the UK, even if it is not quite so common there as it once was. Everyone may as well get use to it. Like LadyC, I don't think there will be too terribly much drama over it. After all these years of them seeing how lovely you are together, they really shouldn't be shocked. Any reaction like that is not shock, it's drama. If it started, I'll assure you, I would get one of these: http://www.cafepress.com/mf/44538864/no-drama_tshirt?productId=468604272 and wear it to EVERY family function until EVERYBODY got the hint. Of course, that's just me, LOL  :grin:

    As far as new friends go, at least initially, (as with any new introductions) it really isn't so much of their business anyhow, now is it? If asked, I would use a line others here have used, and merely say "Oh, we've known each other and been friends since we were kids." After all, that IS the truth, isn't it? If these new friendships deepen to the point of further confidence, and such conversations become naturally, and appropriately, more involved, then perhaps I would discuss the matter further. I personally wouldn't go so deep into such personal matters until such a point that I realized new friends were apt to become more than casual acquaintances, and may end up being longer term/life-long friends. 

    My situation is that I'm not with my cousin, nor shall we ever be together. We're the same age (50's) and back when we were 20, had what we call our "moment". She got scared of what other people would have said, I didn't want to push her, and we walked away, letting the whole affair be overly awkward for decades. In the last 3 or 4 years or so, we've aired it all out, and it's all good. But, much too much water has passed beneath the bridge to go back. We have SO's, and no stomach for cheating with each other. But, our mothers would not have been a problem. Her Mom knew. I mean, we came dragging in all rumpled up from just leaving mine, so, it was pretty obvious what was going on. We didn't really have to say a word. Her Mom can be quite the drama queen though, and started a conversation of some sort as soon as we walked in. Cuz hurriedly scampered to her room to get ready for work, and that's when her Mom took a breath, and a look at our condition. It was priceless. She was speechless. By the time she picked her chin up off the coffee table, I had moved beside her on the couch, and said something to the effect of "And you were saying....???" She got a huge grin, never said a word, and went right back into whatever she was rambling on about. Like I say, it was priceless, and I'll never forget it so long as I live. In airing it out, I asked her if her Mom had said anything afterwards, and perhaps that was why she got scared, and didn't want to go for it. (I always assumed, wrongly, that may have been the case) She said no, that her Mom never mentioned a word about it. After we backed off, I thought that at some point in the future, she could possibly get the nerve to go for it, so, I told my Mom something like "Don't be surprised if at some point me and Cuz become an item." She said "So long as you treat her good, and you make each other happy, I don't have a problem with it." Just the kinda Mom I have. Looking out for Cuz first, LOL. But, Mom looks at her and her sister as the daughters she never had too. And, her Mom looks at me and my brothers in a similar manner.

    So, bottom line? You make the best of what you have. You may have a drama filled dysfunctional family that ends up having no problem or drama over it, or a tight-knit family that looses touch. We've seen all ranges in between too. What worked at the time, and I'm sure would have over time, had we went for it, was to just act like it was the most natural thing in the world, and let that be the visual, and speak for itself.....

  7. Kylie123,

    We remind our members every so often that cousins are people too, with all the good qualities AND flaws we all share. It's probably been a while since one of us have reminded our members and guests of this, so, it's my turn to do so again. Folks come here with stars in their eyes and a spring in their step, and sooner or later, the reality of this fact comes into play, and the bloom comes off the rose, as it were. I'm not saying you in particular, seeing as how you did have at least some idea this could be the outcome. And, your case is one of the more extreme examples, though probably not the worst case we're aware of either.

    I'm sure this is a very hard pill for you to swallow, but, take it you must. You will survive. This will pass. The best you can wish for him, is that he gets the help he needs with his issues. The best you can do for you, is to realize it won't be you who fixes him.

    I am curious as to your opinion on part of this, if you know, and would be willing to speculate. How much of the family's "happiness" (in my mind, read relief) is related to the fact that you two are cousins, and they didn't want to see that, and how much of it could be their realization of his proclivities, and not wanting to see you drawn in and hurt? I'm sure the stigma most likely played a part in their drama, but, I am curious as to how much of it could have been looking out for your best interest as well. Was this side of the equation brought up, and to what extent, as compared to the whole "cousin" thing? (You may have mentioned this, but at the moment, I don't really have the time to go back and look. Plus, I'm curious as to your opinion here and now, looking back on it.) 

  8. kc123,

    I really wish you'd found your way here sooner, but, you're here now, so, here goes. You're going to get the broken record speech. Some of it you probably aren't going to like, but, if you'll pay close attention, I'll assure you, eventually, you'll be glad you did.

    Before we get too far into it, let's have a little peek and get a general idea where you are. You (wisely) didn't get overly specific, so trust me, I won't either. But, being a mod has it's privileges, and I avail myself of them discretely often, only for the best interest of our members. Ok, I'm back. As I said, I'll not mention where you are, but I am glad I checked. You, my young friend, find yourself in one of the more cousin "unfriendly" States. Not what I consider one of the worst, mind you, but bad enough they WILL ruin you if you let them. First cousins having sex is considered a crime there, so, my broken record speech becomes even more important for you to follow going forward. I'm also going to take the liberty to edit your post so as it does not read as you somehow incriminating yourself. Sorry. That's just the way this mod rolls.

    Alright, lets get down to the nitty gritty, shall we?

    I usually start out with the school/education part, but, in this case, I'm modifying it. In your case, I'm going to STRONGLY advise you to put this on the WAY down low, and cut out any neeked shenanigans. As in NOW. I know the genie is already out of the bottle, but, it behooves you to follow my advice, at the very least until the two of you are of age, and can travel elsewhere on occasion if the need be so strong. Cool the jets, set her down, show her this thread, and explain why it's a must. Go here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states , have a look at the State you're in, read carefully, and you'll see just why I'm telling you this. You do not want to needlessly ruin your lives at such a tender age. So, again, knock it off. Easier said than done? I'm sure it is. Of the utmost importance? I'll assure you it is. Do follow this part of my advice, if you take nothing else away from this. Put this on the WAY down low, stay friends, build the friendship to where it is unshakable, and in the meanwhile, BOTH of you follow the rest of my advice.

    Now, on to the schooling. Focus on your studies. If your grades are good, be sure this doesn't distract you from your work, and keep them up. If they aren't so good, put your energy into getting the grades up, and keeping them there. You're (both) going to want to be smart, and you had best be getting that way as fast as you can. Get high school out of the way, and get some college or vo-tech degrees/certs under your belts. Choose fields which interest you, and in which there is a broad demand. You're going to have to relocate. Start planning for it now. You aren't going anywhere with just a HS diploma. Start figuring out what you're going to do for a living that is broadly in demand.

    Keep all of this on the down low as you plan your future. You do not need further suspicion and drama out of family than you already have. Hold your tongue. Actual legal trouble requires evidence or admitting to it. Don't put yourself in such a situation. The waiting will be the hardest part, but, I would like to see you wait until you are at least 20, and I personally recommend 22ish or so. Lay your groundwork. Get in a position to get independent, somewhere else. You can look at that link I posted, and you will see that there are attractive options ("green" States) bordering yours, and/or not terribly far away. Start looking at what professions are in demand in those places, and start preparing. Once you are in a position to do so, go for it, and don't let anyone stop you. You already have the inclination to spend the rest of your life with this girl. While teen romances rarely work out that way, it is usually a function of too much of some of the behavior you have described, it being discovered, and massive drama you do not need overwhelming any future chance of success. Don't let that happen. Get your heads screwed on right, take baby steps, lay the groundwork for the future, and THEN go for it.   

  9. LostWithReason,

    I'm going to say he feels the same as you. Whether it's been there as long on his part as it has yours remains to be seen. I have a feeling he's just as nervous about his feelings as you are. I'll also assume your being so cautious all this time ("I've never been one to take risk without knowing 100% for sure that a situation is correct,") has led to caution on his part as well. However, his behavior betrays his feelings, even if subconsciously.

    If this relationship of yours is pretty much over, don't drag it out, call it quits. We don't go for infidelity here, and, even though you aren't married, at this point, you are still technically attached. Though at this point, my cousin and I are neither married, we are both in committed relationships, and have been agreed since well before I was divorced that we have no stomach for cheating with each other. So, there will be no shenanigans on our part. Do you and your current "partner" a favor, and be fully available before you go down a new road.

    When you are free to pursue your feelings, I'll still advise you to go back to the old "If you weren't my cousin, ______" line. It breaks the ice, and at the same time gives you an out. If he agrees, you step it up, and say "Actually, we aren't related THAT close, so it doesn't REALLY bother me all that much that we ARE cousins." Perfectly honest. Remember, you now have the facts. But, if he reacts badly, actually does have the "ick" factor, and says "OMG, what are you talking about?", you have the out of saying "I did say IF you know? IF we weren't cousins...."  Then, at least for the time being, you'll have to drop it. It will give him food for thought though, so don't be surprised if he doesn't come back at some point, (after possibly finding his way here, LOL) and say, "You know, I've been thinking...." I really don't think you have to worry about that though. I really think he feels almost exactly like you do. You just have to pry it out of him.  :grin: At the next round of "touchy- huggy- feely" out of him, reciprocate. If it's in your comfort zone, and without prying eyes, kiss him. You'll know pretty quick how he feels then, and at that stage, you break the ice, and go from there....

  10. LostWithReason,

    If your grandfathers are brothers, then you two are second cousins. If you are seriously considering a relationship with him, then you need to button up any loose ends on your part. Beyond that, see above. You two are surely old enough to proceed. Get your facts in a row for any nay-sayers in the family, and don't worry about what anyone else says. The parents of your children don't get a say either. With second cousins being legal in all 50 States, if they say they will take the kids, smile and say "Try....". I personally would love to go before a judge and say "Your Honor, with second cousins being legal to marry in all 50 States, and us considering a relationship possibly up to and including that, just exactly WHY are we here?" Then, just set back and enjoy the smackdown, LOL Of course, again, way out in front of where you are at this point.

    If you and your current SO are agreed that it's pretty much over, then part as amicably as possible, and take any time until you do see your cousin to refocus. I'll encourage you to step it up as mentioned, but, do treat it as you would any new relationship. Because in reality, that's what it will be. That you two have known each other for as long as you have is not so unusual. It's only "the cousin factor" that causes the little wrinkle in it. You will probably want to be discrete initially. There is no need to invite unneeded drama until you find out if there is actually a mutual attraction and possibility of it going forward.

    If things do progress, don't be surprised if it gets very intense in relatively short order. That happens. We hear how the connection is so strong, and aspects of it being "uncanny", for lack of a better word. That's how it was with me and my second cousin. We were just a little too young at the time, (20) and had no such resource as this site. We have the whole "finish each others sentences, know what the other is thinking" thing that many members mention having when they come here. The actual verbalizing our feelings would have probably helped though. As would having been considerably more sober when we did so. But it is what it is, and now, decades later, it's all good. You want to have the nerve to have the conversation, preferably before any neeked shenanigans, but if not, certainly afterwards. Be sure you have the facts about cousin couples, because he may not (probably won't) know them, and might be overwhelmed by it at first. Tell him "Don't be skeered", show him this site, then decide where you want to go with it.

  11. LostWithReason,

    Second cousins are legal to marry in all 50 States, and pretty much everywhere in the world we are aware of. Even Texas. I'm not doubting your actual relation, but are you sure you are second cousins, and not first cousins once removed? If either of you is the first cousin of one of the parents of the other, then you are 1C1R's. If one each of your parents are first cousins, then indeed, you are second cousins. (As in, one of your grandparents and one of his grandparents are siblings) This is one of the more confusing aspects of how the old family tree branches out, and one we often must clear up among our new members. There are some States, (LadyC, being in Texas, and married to her 1C1R, would know for sure about Texas) that do make the distinction that 1C1R's cannot marry, and others (such as Kentucky) word it as "not nearer of kin than second cousins". Also, with second cousins, there is no need for a dispensation from the diocese.

    Now, as to his feelings toward you, and how to figure that out. First off, how old are the two of you, and are either of you in a relationship at this point? If he's in the USMC, I'm sure he's of age, and from your tone and grammar, I'll assume you are as well. Provided I'm correct, and neither of you are attached at this point, you may as well have an adult conversation on the matter. Just by his behavior as you describe it, he has some level of feelings, possibly ( IMHO, probably) romantically inclined at least to some degree. Have either of you ever used what we call "the old tried and true 'If you weren't my cousin.....' " line? If so, how did that conversation go? If not, it sounds like it's time to go there, and see if that doesn't segue into "The Talk".

    Of course, if you are both unattached, the next time he's home, and his affection level is what it tends to be when you are single, why not ramp it up a little? Call his bluff so to speak, and see how far he's willing to take it. Actions do speak considerably louder than words. BUT, before you take it to it's eventual conclusion, sprinkle enough cool water on it to get some ground rules in place. Intimacy will change things. It is very apt to get very intense, very quickly, trust me. If things move too fast, it could overwhelm either or both of you, and the fears of what others will think could make you walk away from it. Again, trust me. If you are worried about what family will say, you will tend to be very discrete. Initially, the sneaking around can be very exhilarating and exciting. Eventually, it will become drudgery. All of this is out in front of where you are at this point, and, I see LadyC has hit a couple of my points too, when I went to preview this.

    Being Catholic, I'm assuming it isn't beyond you two to have a glass of wine or two either. That works to loosen the tension, but you would be well advised to not over imbibe in the middle of this process of discovering each others feelings. Again, trust me on that too. While you don't want to overthink it, you will want to have where you're going to go with this thought out with a clear head. Get a little too schnockered, let things get carried away, and you could find yourselves feeling quite awkward in the sober light of morning. Don't let it get awkward. Once again, trust me on that.

  12. I've always been more of a David Gilmore guy than a Roger Waters guy. But, I saw this several months back whilst, well, lets not go into what we were doing.... Anyhow, I find myself looking it up once a week or so since then. This is Part 1, Part 2 should show up as the first vid on the top right if you have the time to kill watching the whole thing. One of the links is to the whole DVD for any die hard Pink Floyd/Roger Waters fans.

  13. Keith Cambra,

    You don't want to play around in Texas. Or Wisconsin. Nevada either, as I recall. Possibly Oregon and a couple others as I recall. I would have to go back and look to see for sure. Texas and Wisconsin are the worst, I do know. Sexual relations between first cousins are felonious there, and would most likely be pressed. The others, while it may be felonious, maybe, maybe not. Rhode Island, Ohio, and Illinois have quietly decided to not prosecute any incest cases involving consenting adults, although cousins are not on the list there. Who knows what would actually happen anywhere to be honest. 50 States, 50 different sets of shysters setting and enforcing the rules.

    However, in most States where there is a marriage prohibition, it is NOT criminal incest. And actually, as crazy as it sounds, in Wisconsin, where it is a felony, and they will come after you if it suits their cause, first cousins can legally marry, and have relations, provided both parties are over 55 (IIRC) and/or one party can produce an affidavit of sterility from a physician. Go figure....

    Bottom line, get out of Texas, or don't leave/produce empirical evidence. You have the right to remain silent, I suggest you fully enjoy that right so long as you are in Texas. Your Mom can't just have you thrown in jail. There would have to be evidence rising to probable cause to be arrested, and rising beyond a reasonable doubt to convict. The rantings of a hysterical woman won't cut it. Should she get the two of you on video in an uncompromising position, then, yeah, you in a heap a trouble boy, as the old saying goes. They would most likely prosecute, and put the two of you on the sex offender registry for life. My advice, don't chance it. Go to Colorado, New Mexico, Florida, or Georgia, (or any of the green States here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states )

    and don't worry about it. 

  14. Shahzad,

    At 19, you two are certainly old enough to set down and have a long talk and find out how you feel about each other. I know that probably makes you nervous, but, you need to ask her, so you know whether there is the possibility of a future together or not. Now is the time to find out, before you are older, and have wasted time either not being together if she does feel the same, or not looking further for your life partner if she is not interested.

    You didn't mention where you are, so I won't either, but I did have a little peek. You are lucky, in that where you are, it is not only quite common for cousins to marry, but many times is arranged for you. This could be another option you would want to explore. Would your parents agree, and possibly arrange a marriage if she were to be open to the idea? Would they be willing to help you convince her, without putting undue pressure on her? You don't want to push her, but, at the same time, you don't want to overlook any genuine assistance you may be able to have. Have you spoke with your father about this? How about her father? I think this would show great respect to ask their advice on this matter. If they are open to the idea, perhaps you would wish to bring her mother into the conversation. Her mother could be most influential in convincing her I would think. While my knowledge of your country and culture is limited, I do get the impression my advice would be sound there.  

  15. Sanu,

    As Christians in India, LEGALLY, you are allowed to marry. However, as you are finding out, there is a VERY strong cultural bias against doing so there. As Christians, my only advice to you is to show them the facts regarding the various religions, esp. the Old/New Testament ones found here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=religion

    You may as well get a copy of the Christian Marriage Act, or the relevant parts of the overall Marriage Act in India, however that exists. I think it is a general marriage act, with various parts/sections governing the respective religions there. Depending on which "denomination" you are, you may need to take other steps through your church. I do know that if you are Catholic, you will need a dispensation from the local diocese. Not really a big deal, but it may cost you a small nominal fee. If you are Catholic, and the diocese is willing to bless the marriage, and your priest will follow their instructions to solemnize the marriage, your family would be in the untenable position of arguing with the Church. I don't see them saying "Well, the Church is wrong." If they say that, then they have to ask if the Church is wrong on other matters. That isn't going to happen. If you are of any of the various Protestant denominations, there would be no dispensation required, no LEGITIMATE religious objection, but you may still be hard pressed to convince your pastor to overcome the cultural bias and marry you. All Protestant denominations, so far as we know, have the official position that cousin marriage is allowed, and will perform such a marriage, PROVIDED it is legal in the Country/State/Jurisdiction where it is to be performed.

    For now, do a search for "Christian Marriage Act in India", look at the link above, print them out, show them to the family, and see how they argue with the facts.

    I'm also curious as to how old the two of you are? If you are not of age, you will be well advised to put this on the way down low, keep in touch, taking great care to choose your words wisely, so as to not have your means of communication taken from you, and ride this out until you are of age and can get out on your own. If you are of age, we always advise our members and guests from India to quietly prepare to leave. For Hindus, that generally means leaving India for friendlier environs. As Christians, you would only have to move far enough to get away from the drama, then legally marry and make your own happy life together.

  16. Tham,

    You have lost her. You lost her to her father more surely than you have to her husband. The time to kick her father in the family jewels and tell him to butt the hell out has LONG passed. My advice is to move far away, and make a fresh start for YOU, with new friends who will support YOU. Eventually, you will find a woman who WILL stand up for YOU. Everyone else has had their say in your life, and if you don't start living it for you, you will have lived your life for everyone BUT YOU. Go make a life for yourself on YOUR terms. And, don't hold your breath waiting on her to get divorced and come looking for you. BED, MADE, LAY. As in, she didn't have the nerve to stand up for you, succumbed to her fathers will, and in doing so, made her bed, and now she'll have to lay in it.

    Move on, and the sooner the better, believe me. I want you to do as I've said, then come back in one year from now, and tell me I was wrong. You won't, because I'm right, and deep down, you know it. It's just so fresh, you're not thinking clearly yet. You need a break. You need a clean break, and a change of scenery. Now, go to it....

  17. narendra,

    I've been taught to respect my elders, but, I must say, your parents are idiots. You two are SECOND cousins, NOT BROTHER AND SISTER. I really don't get how such outdated notions, based on outdated practices can hang on so stubbornly. How a people who generally have a high scientific aptitude can still believe such silliness is beyond me. You can go to the main page here, copy the facts, and show them, but, you'll be wasting your time. However, so far as we know, second cousins are legal to marry in India. ( I did have a little peek to see what country you were in, even though I didn't need to, considering the "cousin is your brother/sister" BS)

    My advice? Find out for sure if second cousins can legally marry, then marry the girl, show them the facts, and a legal marriage certificate, then tell them the conversation on the matter is closed. Then, stick to your guns. Do not succumb to their drama and foolishness. Move to a different town if you have to, so you don't have to listen to it. Get away from their toxicity before it destroys you, your cousin, and your relationship.

  18. Aly,

    You are half second cousins. Full second cousins can legally marry everywhere in the world, so far as we know. In the UK, full FIRST cousins can legally marry. You are 20. How is it that your mother is allowed to have constant surveillance over you? Unless she pays the bill for your phone, your conversations are none of her damn business. I don't care if you do live under her roof. She can stop you and him from having a physical relationship under her roof, but that's about the extent of her RIGHTFUL say in your private life. If you have a job, you should be looking for your own place. If you don't have a job, you should be finding one, unless you are still in school. If you ARE still in school, put this all on the back burner, and get that out of the way first. If you believe that God brought you together, and your gut instinct tell you that eventually you will be together, then that will probably happen. You should get independent as soon as you can, then tell your mother he's a good man, it's more than perfectly legal, and she need to stop the drama fest and get use to it. The facts about the genetics, religion, legalities, and history of cousin couples are on the main page. Feel free to print them out and pass them around to "overly interested" family members.

    As a side note, you will find that the history of cousin couples works to just the opposite of tearing families apart, and is used primarily to strengthen family bonds. That would be one issue I would overemphasis if I were you....

  19. Myra,

    Do not go back. You have started your own life, and you should keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep going forward. It is not your fault that his parents don't have the guts to tell nosy ass busy-bodies to mind their own damn business. You two cannot keep something from happening which you cannot undo, when it is the actions of others who do it or allow it to happen. I will repeat myself and say that if you go back, it will still be held over your heads. The only difference is, it will be in your face as well. My advice is to just don't do it. Move on with your life. If he is so beholden to his parents that he cannot go forward with you, then let him face the music of his own making. I'll assure you, if he moves back home, his parents will be belligerent and dismissive of him, from now on, and will never forgive him. He will have given up the one thing that would make him happy, and they will never be grateful for his decision. They will quietly gloat that "they won", but they will never forgive him. For your own sanity, stay independent, and ignore the insane drama. Make any and all future decisions for your own best interest. If he somehow plays a part in that, so be it. If not, it's his fault, not yours. You have done what you know works for you. 

  20. Tom182,

    Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I typed a reply last night, but, I was doing other things at the same time, and by the time I was ready to let 'er fly, I hit preview to look it over, and I lost it, as I had timed out on my login. SO, it won't be the wall of text that it was going to be.

    Me and mine are second cousins, and were born a week to the day apart. (Me being the slightly elder) When we were very young, they were all over the world, so we didn't formally meet until we were 9-10ish or so. When our mothers had us tell each other our birthdays, and we figured out we were a week apart, we were instantly favorite/"best" cousins. Not long afterwards, they moved across the street from us, in our great grandmother's house. For the next 5 years or so, we were practically as close as siblings. My brothers and I, and her and her sister all played and had lots of fun. Over the years, we moved, they moved, and we didn't see each other very often. Our circles did overlap some, so occasionally we would see each other. When we were 20, through a series of events, we had what we call our "moment". We were quite the party animals, she ended up at mine, we partied it up, and at one point, our lips touched as a matter of course of behavior I won't explain, because I don't want to seem to condone it!!! ( These days I pee in a cup because of work, and I can't handle it any more anyway, LOL) At any rate, we liked it, so, we did it again, just for the sake of kissing. One thing led to another, and it became very intense, very quickly. After several nights like that over the next couple weeks or so, "stuff" got real. In all of that, we never did really go into how we felt about each other. It was a given, we'd met, we were best cousins. Actions spoke louder than words, you might say. Looking back, a little more talk and a lot less partying might have changed the outcome. But, she got scared of what people would say, so we walked away from it. Our Moms wouldn't have cared, and our Dads' opinions would have been virtually irrelevant. It was our friends she was nervous about, since they all knew we were cousins. And the whole "we're family, we'd have messed up kids, blah, blah, blah" old wives tales thing. Back then, there was no internet, more less a site such as this, or anywhere for that matter, that had the facts readily accessible. Since we didn't really go into it at the time, I never really knew the extent of her fears, just that she didn't want to go for it, and I didn't want to push her. We walked away, and let the whole affair be extremely awkward for nearly 3 decades.

    Fast forward ~30 years to about 5 years ago or so now. Through another series of events, we reconnected. We had a couple times were we could speak candidly, and one night a little over 3 years ago when we aired it all out. Once when speaking candidly, I asked why exactly didn't we go for it, and walk away from it. She said "We're family..." and I said "Not THAT close..." and she said "Oh, I know...". I said "How did we let it be so awkward for all these years?" and she said "I love you....". I said "Aww, I love you too...." and she said "No, I LOVE you...". I said "I know what you mean.", I took her hand, kissed the back of it, and told her to be safe driving home, (all of 5 or 6 blocks, LOL) and she left. Several months later, one night, we had a chance to set down and air it all out. Most of that was more peripheral stuff, such as how I wanted us to leave way back when, and go to were her Dad lives, what all we had done over the years, such as that. Catching up. We did speak some about her fears. Totally unrelated to us reconnecting, but still motivational to do so, by that time, I'd already been here for a while. I had always (wrongly) assumed she would be pissed if she knew I was as involved as I was by that time here. So, in talking about her "old wives tales" fears, I showed her the main page here, and the facts. Later, the conversation turned that way again, and I said "You're probably going to kill me, but log back online, we're going back to that site." So, she did, and I showed her this forum. I said "See where it says "Hawk" there? That's me...." I told her how I found this place, and that I had become famous for my old "broken record speech" to teens, and early 20's members and guests. She said "And what would that be?", so I told her. She started nodding her head and got pretty misty eyed. I always knew she would agree with my advice, that just confirmed to me that my advise was pretty sound. We also agreed that much too much water had passed beneath the bridge, that neither of us had any stomach for cheating on our SO's, and therefore, there would be no shenanigans of trying to relive our youth. We're not together, and never will be. We had our chance, and didn't go that way. Such is life, and none the less, life is good. We're fine with it, and just happy to have let the awkward go, and be in touch again.

    So, now that it has turned into a wall of text, I'll try to advise you and others in your situation. My advice, along with others here, is to start off with the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin,...." shtick. Vary it to your situation and conversation at the time. On the beach, at sunset, I have to believe you can word it to where you would instantly know how she feels. If she says "I know what you mean..." you know she feels the same, and you tell her "Actually, I don't care the we are cousins that much. I'd still be with you if I could." or something like that. If she has the "ick" factor, it still gives you the out of saying "I did say IF, you know. IF you weren't my cousin...." Then, DON'T LET IT GET AWKWARD. Drop it. Let her digest it for a while. She wouldn't be the first to some back at some later date and say "I've been thinking about this cousins thing, and maybe it isn't such a big deal." She wouldn't be the first one to do so after thinking about it, typing it in google, and ending up here either. I will tell you to keep in mind, nothing ventured, nothing gained. If you don't test the waters, you'll never know. You want to find out now, so if you have to, you move on. You DON'T want to find out several years from now, when you are neither available, and risk a massive trainwreck in your respective relationships. We've seen our fair share of that too.... 

  21. KattySays,

    You and him both have kinda put the cart before the horse. But, you're both young, and that's to be expected. THAT SAID, you didn't mention where you are (and DON'T), so I shan't either, BUT, it's a very good thing you have a decent work from home job, because if my checker is right, your home needs to be in another State, and I mean as SOON as you can hoppy skip your behinds there. I would keep my mouth SHUT about the paternity of your child until you get out of your State. Provided he is your first cousin, it is a felony there to have such a relation, and, you just happen to be toting around empirical evidence of such. We're not lawyers, we don't give legal advice, but if I were you, I'd be lacing up my traveling shoes so I didn't NEED legal advice.....capeesh? 

    As far as him being a father at 19, hey, happens to guys even younger than that. He's just going to have to buck up, and buckle down. He said he'd gladly do it, he's of legal age to do so, has loved you, (or at least had a horrible crush on you that has become more than puppy love) for several years now, so hey, I'm not going to say he can't do it, and be a good father at 19. I've seen good fathers at 19. Not most of them, but, he does seem motivated. Give him a chance, and as much encouragement and support as you can. He'll need to get busy figuring out what he's going to do to support you and his child as well. All I can tell him is get to it.

    You will be looking for a lovely "green" State from here: https://www.cousincouples.com/?page=states I'm pretty partial to Georgia, but I hear Florida is the place to be this time of year. Arrivederci...

  22. Damedash274,

    I removed your posts. Clean up the language, and try again. It isn't that it's so shocking to me, (trust me, it isn't) BUT, there are underage members and lurkers, and we want this to be at the very worst PG rated. You verbiage isn't REAL far over what that line has become these days, but leave out the anatomy lesson, and try again. Of course, all but the first of your scenarios mentioned involve said genital anatomy, and at the least, rather lascivious behavior by both you and her.

    Here's an answer as far as I see it. I'm going to say, yeah, she probably likes you. At the very least, she's extremely comfortable around you, since girls usually don't behave that way if they aren't comfortable in those situations.

    Your bigger problem, until she's 18 is, YOU are dancing on extremely thin ice with this behavior until then. My advice, cool the jets, yours, and,( you being the elder, insist upon) hers as well. Once she's 18, at least legally, it's wide open to all the shenanigans you two are comfortable with. You two are obviously well past the "if you weren't my cousin" phase..... 

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