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Santoro last won the day on October 13 2017

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  1. Hi KC, as you correctly stated Wikipedia is not an academic source and should only be used as a reality check. My personal opinion about wikipedia is that is not valid especially about history or politics issues. Quite often though it can be a starting point for a research. I didn't keep in mind the particular web page in the cc website, that's why i didn't mention it and thanks for you doing it. I would suggest Febin to make a new thread or change the title of this thread to something like «Is marriage with my first cousin legal or illegal in India?». This could attract members attention who live in India or know a lot more about indian legislation.
  2. Santoro

    New here

    Thank you for your positive comment LadyC. Keep in mind that most, if not all, laws wolrd-wide are made by politicians and run for lawyers and judges... This means that legislation intentionally is structured and written in a messy (and quite often ambiguous) manner otherwise politicians, lawyers and judges would be… jobless. Just to complete my thoughts in previous message, the degree of relation is necessary only in clauses (or articles) of the Law concerning affinity or spiritual relation, not biological one between two candidate spouses. For example, in Hellenic Orthodox Church a god father is not allowed to marry neither his god-child mother nor his god-child because of the spiritual relation obtained through baptism. I presume something similar applies to Catholic Church. Similarly, affinity relations should be considered to a certain degree not only to prevent incest but mostly to protect family cohesion. In the example of double cousins mentioned in previous message, with no incest involved double cousins become practically half-siblings. It sounds paradox but it is a fact. So, yes, the degree of relation must be a criterion talking about affinity and spiritual relations but it is not proper itself concerning the biological relations. Because in christian states and countries, (and USA are definitely christian ones in spite of the massive dechristianisation and religional "neutrality" promoted by the political correctness) the whole anathema to cousin marriages rises basically from distorted knowledge about genetics, the coefficient of relationship (or relatedness) r or any other equivalent (like the coefficient of inbreeding F) should be the guide towards a more fair and reasonable Legislation. PS: a consistent Legislation is the nightmare of lawyers.
  3. Santoro

    Am I wrong

    Of course you are not. Love stories between cousins are not for all of us, but when they occur, they are pretty natural, nothing to feel guilty/shame about. However, such stories are worthy only when there is deep love. Give yourself sometime to be 100% sure about your feelings and focus on the woman/person aspect of the story, not the cousin one. If you already feel ready for the next step but you are afraid of possible lack of mutuality, just use the "what if scénario" and see how it works. If you catch any positive signs, just go ahead. Good luck. PS: What if scénario is something like «what if we weren't cousins» and so on.
  4. Santoro


    Yeah, she is a distant cousin of you, in my country you would call her a second cousin, but being in the US you say that she is a first cousin once removed. Any news Jack? Or no news good news?
  5. Santoro

    Brand new, stopping in to say hi!

    «We are a forum that believes in monogamy. So, accept that reality.» «if you want like-minded people, go find a polyamory site… we're here to help people who WANT help. we aren't a group that is politically correct. we're a group that is just correct. period.» I am really happy to see that this phorum is political correctness free. This is a good reason to be a member, too!
  6. Santoro

    Reposting my story

    It is nice to hear stories with a happy end. All the best for you! By the way, is your twin sister identical with you or you are fraternal twins? Sorry for posing the question... From my experience identical twins are almost always very tied to each other...
  7. Santoro

    New here

    I certainly agree with Lady C. You have a 3rd degree relation with your half-nephew, though the coefficient of relatedness r (or relationship) is 12.5%, same with that between first cousins. If you would ask my opinion... For me the laws should change and the criterion upon which a marriage would be considered valid/legal or not should be a critical value of the above coefficient and not the degree of relation. Genetics has shown so far that marriages between first cousins (r=12.5%) is the safety threshold as the risk for genetic problems carried to children is really small, though not negligible. Practically, you both share the same genes as if you were first cousins. In order to see how problematic is the -degree of relation only- approach of the Legislation consider the case of two double cousins. From the genetics scope, two double cousins are half-siblings as they have an r=25%. However, in states where marriage between cousins is allowed, there will probably not be prohibition for 2 double cousins to get married. It seems that you are unlucky. Such laws should be purely a scientists affair and not a judges one.
  8. Santoro

    Intro and thanks for this site

    Better late than ever, as long as you have no pending affairs, of course.
  9. Well... in my country, Hellas (Greece), it was the 7th degree of relation the «safe» limit to «enter» such kind of relationships. In other words, second cousins were not allowed to get married, unless there was a valid reason for this and only under the permission of the bishop. Though the influence of the church has decreased over the hellenic society during the last 40 years (which is bad in my opinion), many people still believe that marrying your second cousin is kinda sick or illegal. The Hellenic Orthodox Church having realised the progress of Genetics (priests despite the blame, they don't live on a planet other than Earth...) has hopefully changed the terms and conditions about the church marriage (those actually that have to do with biological relation issues). I can't recall this now when this happened (late 70s or early 80s). It is certain that both the national legislation and the religious rules have changed since many years but not the way people handle the issue. In past years a second cousin marriage here was -let's say semi-legal- but as Hellas wasn't that urbanised many people, especially in the rural areas and villages, were exerting pressure to the local priests in order to marry their second cousin. Though the country has been totally urbanised in 80s and afterwards, though the laws have changed (the limit now is the 5th degree- that is you can marry your first cousin once removed), lots of people consider that marrying your cousin is something bad. And yes, marrying your first cousin is still forbidden. Unfortunately, we witness everyday symptoms of social decline in the name of the «human rights» (aka political correctness), sexual freedom and so on but marrying your cousin is still regarded to be bad. No, i don't want cousin marriage to be fashion, life-style, or part of culture as it is in other countries or areas (Middle East, etc) but i would expect a more fair approach by people and politicians. Cousin marriage is not definitely for all of us, but cousins who love each other and want to make a family are normal people and they don't commit a crime. This has to change but i don't see this happening.
  10. Santoro

    How do your friends react?

    I am in love with my second cousin. Though i do recognise that's a situation much easier to handle than to be in love with your first cousin, there still problems on the way people realise the issue. Yeah, I have spoken to my friends about my feelings for her. My best friends reacted and still do in a very supportive and enthusiastic way. Some first cousins were ok with it, too. Most people actually neglect what Law, Church and Genetics say about the issue. Regardless if people approve or not cousin relationships, most of them don't have a clear idea about the Legislation. However, the head ache in such cases is the families and how they are gonna see it.
  11. It was this double "l" that made me think of possible hellenic origin…!
  12. Hello Michael, i am an Hellene like you and in love with my second cousin, too! But… As i have said to another friend here in the phorum, I belong to those that they don't demonise cousin relationships but at the same time don't encourage other people to be engaged is such relationships, simply because such relations are not for all of us. The most important thing for me is to love and be loved. I would totally agree with KC. If you really love her and she does love, yeah this is all the matters. Check how your families would react by knowing about your relationship and be prepared to encounter both positive or negative impact by family and friends. In my opinion, such stories between cousins are worthy only if there is deep love. They do demand hard stomach! Edit: just saw that the message posted by Michael is about a year old… Michael, if you see our answers to your post here, let us know about your story. Good luck!
  13. Don't be scared of words! In my mother tongue, you would be described as a distant aunt of him or he as a distant (third) nephew of you. I sketched a family tree in order to identify the degree of your relationship and talking about the hierarchy you are one level up to him. This made me to tell you that he is a distant nephew, though i know that the expression used in english is «Nth cousin removed x times» where N is 1 or 2 or 3 and x is once, twice, or three times. You ask «Wouldn't he be twice removed because he is the grandson of my mother's first cousin?» No. Your mother and his grandma are first cousins, right? So, you and one of his parents (i think you don't mention which) are second cousins. So, he is second cousin once removed. Am glad that the only big distance between you two is this one of genes!