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      Get Smart on the Web   09/16/2016

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aaroncbridges

cousin in MO

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I was married for 20 years to my now xwife and had three boys. No, she was not my cousin. However, after my divorce, I decided to move back to St. Louis to start over. That is where all of my family is from. I moved into my cousin's house. Me and her have always got along. She and her husband just resiliently got a divorce about 4 months ago. I would call at this point that our relationship has a very "Will and Grace" theme going on except I'm not gay and she is dating a few guys. Shes always asking me about advice and such. Anyway, I've always thought that she was attractive, but that's not the point. We do all kind of things together and we're very very close. We cuddle some what on the couch and watch movies and talk about our broken hearts. It's very nice and I love her. We go camping and one night camping, we sleep in the same tent. Me her and her to little girls. Well during the night, she cuddled up to me closer and closer, nothing disturbing but it was nice. And just the other night weeks later, she asked me to come into her room and watch a movie with her while her kids were at their dads. We fell asleep and the same thing happens. I love being with her and I can tell there is a connection, but I'm not sure whats going on really. We're both very comfortable with each other and play all the time. I do have feelings for her but always keep them within boundaries. I feel she is doing the same. But one night after going out with her and all her friends , both male and female, a few of them started talking to us like this. "I have to say, You to are the most "kissing like" cousins we've ever seen"... We were shocked at that remark. I thought all of my actions around her were within a normal cousin relationship, I guess I was wrong. They saw it too.  "My cousin just said, Hey look, we are very close. We have fun together and there is nothing like that going on."  Later, on our next night out with the same people, I said, "OK now just remember, we can't hug or anything or they will give us shit." she said "Fuck that, I love you cuz. and that's that.". We are not in any relationship. We haven't said anything about liking each other more than the "will and grace" type thing. But I can't help feeling that she is the perfect girl for me. She makes me so happy just being with her. I can be myself and not be fake at all. She is the first and last thing I think about each day. I get this feeling that it's wrong but she is 34 and I'm 44. We are both full grown, have our own children. She can't get pregnant so "club foot out the door" I could see spending my life with her. She is so sweet and wonderful. I'm tired of seeing guys stomp on her beautiful heart just so I can comport her later and tell her that she is perfect and that there is a guy out there ready to make her happy and love her for who she is. "it's me" and I hate telling her that only to not tell her that I'm that guy. I do love her. I'm in love with the love she has for me. I'm just afraid that if I say anything, she will freak on me and tell me that I have to move out. I can do that and she knows it, she just keeps telling me that she loves me being here and wouldn't know what to do without me. It's not like I'm a bum... I can move anytime, we both know that... I'm lost without the courage to move forward.... any ideas?

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aaron,

Having just gone through a divorce myself after being with the ex for almost 21 years now, I've "been there, done that" you could say.

My first advice to you is to continue to remain calm. With BOTH of you having recently gone through divorces, you need to give it time. Continue to lay the groundwork of friendship as you are. If you must, you can tell her something along these lines. You both need to take time to refocus. For the time being, there is nothing wrong with, (well, I don't want to put it that way, the censor will get me.......how can I say it???) blocking these other guys who would not treat her so well as she deserves to be treated. If the group of friends have noticed it, there is obviously something similar going on in both of your heads. As things progress, perhaps during one of these "snugglefests," you could always use your variation of the old tried and true "If you weren't my cousin" thing. You already know what she's going to say. She's going to say "Yeah, I know." At that point, you can mention that you really don't see that much (even if you see NOTHING) wrong with it, but that if the two of did become an item, it would take slow careful steps to get to where you want to be. You may mention that usually these type of things bring drama, but, the friends already see the two of you as a "kissing cousins" couple, and don't really seem to be bothered by the whole thing. The taking things slow would only be so that you are both sure that it is something that would be long term, and NOT just a "rebound" situation for the both of you. "I can, and would be that guy, but after both of us coming out of what we have, if we were to consider it, we would have to take things slow, and be absolutely sure about where we want to go with it." Something along that train of thought.

Another thing you may consider would be, the next time the "friends" mention the connection you two have, once you are home, bring her here, and show her around. Say "Hear me out here now. After their comments these last couple times, I got to thinking, and looked it up out of curiosity. Check out what I found..." and let her look around, and check her reaction. At that point, you could go into some of the other things I previously mentioned.

In MO, you can't get married, but, after the both of your recent divorces, I doubt you are in any big rush for that anyhow. Even though you can't marry, you DO NOT fall under the criminal incest statute, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Don't let her be scared over that aspect either. Let her know that should she consider it, after taking your time to step it out right, you will stand up to any and all naysayers. You being the elder, it would be your place to protect her (AND her daughters) from the drama. And of course, part of that is practicing up on the word "nunya" as in, "nunya damn business." As my friends and I say "If it ain't on video, it didn't happen." Don't get it on video.....

Also, BTW, welcome back to the neighborhood. I'm about an hour and half or so across the river to your southeast. Beautiful country down here. Maybe you should plan another camping trip before it gets too cold.... :wink:

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Wow, your a real person.... Cool. Ok your advice is great. It's nothing outside of what I've been thinking. Just for the record, the "snuggle festing" is really nothing more than close sleeping well who am I kidding. It is nice, and I think it's deliberate. And much wanted. I just love being around here. She is so funny and caring and such a great friend. I just wish I could let her know. At this point I don't even have a want to have sex with her. I just want more than what we have. I already love her, I just want to tell her that I'm in love with her. I almost think she feels the same way. It's just that risk of "AHHH" her saying, "what the 'whoohoops'?" I don't want to loose her. Anyway, thanks for you quick response.

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aaroncbridges,

Pardon me for editing in the 'whoohoops.' I can skirt the cuss filter too, and on occasion do. Please do keep in mind though that this isn't just an adult only site. We have many members from tweens through late teens, which, by the rules of expected similar persuasion, means many times the same demographic of lurkers. I will send you a link to my story, if you don't particularly care to look at my profile and check my first couple of posts to read it. Since "DW" and I are no longer married, and since there is nothing "dear"(at least on her part) and it is certainly not "wife" anymore, some aspects of it have changed in the last 3 1/2 years or so I have been here. One thing has not changed. I STILL don't see me and Cuz as ever being together. I won't say "NEVER," but the likelihood is still as slim as it has ever been. I have stuck around here to kind of "hold the hands" of our young members, and let them know that there is a way to go about a cousin relationship, and there are things to avoid so as to not screw it up before you have a chance to make a go of it. I keep an eye on them, and at times may seem a little overprotective of them. It has become known as my "broken record speech" to young members. I never had kids, and I call everyone here "my kids." All of that said, in the last year and a half or so, I have also found myself holding the hands of older members near my age, (such as you) and even older. (I'm now 51) I tell the young ones, and those in a situation such as yours, to take slow, well thought out steps. At each step you take, plant it firmly, and don't waver. Once you are in a position to fully go for it, do so, and don't let ANYONE talk you out of it. I tell the older ones, who's children are all adults, to just go for it. Be happy. Life is short. At times it seems to drag by, but in the end, we are but a flicker. Even in a couple of states, such as over here in Illinois, after 50ish, cousins CAN marry. By the time she gets to that point, you two could be well established, and come across the river here, and make it official. I would have to dig for you, but so far as I can tell from what we have, MO has no clause about going elsewhere to avoid the prohibition. DON'T TAKE THAT AS THE FINAL WORD. As I say, I would have to dig deeper, and it's getting close to this old fart's bed time.

I don't know what the visitation arrangements are for her daughters and their father, but, if it is as per usual, and every other weekend, I CAN point you to several spots near here, and easily close enough for you, to come down to the Shawnee Forest, and have a weekend of camping in God's country. If you choose to bring the girls, or if you choose for it to just be the two of you, either way, a good time, and beautiful scenery is to be had. Especially withing the not so distant future, when all the hardwoods start to change colors. There are lakes, hiking and biking trails, horse trails, and many scenic places to see. Plenty of opportunities to have hand in hand "bonding" experiences. If you would be interested, PM me, and I'll gladly give you some info.

For any of the rest of you who may be reading this, and looking for ideas, I encourage you to get out and enjoy the cooler weather and beautiful scenery hand in hand with the one you love. There are places almost everywhere in this great country of ours (for those of you in the US) to get out of the house and enjoy.

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Hi Aaron,

Everything that Hawk has already said really and this...

Sometimes us women are waiting for the guy to make the first move... then again, sometimes we are not and WYSIWYG.

Seems to me like you have choices. 

You could let things continue as they are and at some point one of you will embark on something serious with another person and you will move out.  There will have been no awkward moments on either side and life will just meander on of its own free will as it has a habit of doing.

You could say something to her and risk a) rejection or B) her asking you to move out.  Either of which you will be able to deal with as you've lived long enough in this life to be a man and to know when you just have to suck it up and get on with it.

You could wait until she says something.....  you could be waiting a long long long long time (see my initial point lol!)

You could offer to move out and carefully gauge her reaction to this suggestion.  That's prob a tad risky but still an option nevertheless.

You could have a conversation in maybe ten, twenty, thirty, forty years from now and both learn that the other was waiting for each to say something.

Forgive my ramblings, I'm in that kinda mood tonight.  Call it conflicted.  My point is, life is for living.  Live it, enjoy it, no regrets. 

Lori :)

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Hi Aaron.

Don't forget about the beginning of your post. This deserves respect.

"Me and her have always got along."

"We do all kind of things together and we're very very close. We cuddle some what on the couch and watch movies and talk about our broken hearts. It's very nice and I love her."

Since she is so valuable to you, it's best avoided that you damage your cousin relationship. Figure out what carries more strength, the importance of your cousin relationship with her versus going up with a 50/50 either a lifetime of love or a somewhat less bright future.

You must consider this bombshell as a 50/50 chance otherwise you won't consider at all not taking action. And you should consider not taking action. You don't know what your cousin is thinking.

But don't worry. You both feel the same way about each other. It doesn't take words or confirmation from the other person to see that.

If you do choose to tell her, you won't regret opening up. But this is a bombshell when you consider what you have told us compared to what you have told her. The fact you haven't already opened up to her more just proves how important your cousin relationship with her is to you.

And no matter what you suss someone feels, anyone can freak out when actual reality as opposed to a person's ideal reality comes knocking. We as humans can be unpredictable with how we respond.

When you consider the risk of things going badly also take into account and note different characters deal with situations differently, consider both of your personalities, how would you and how would she cope with things going wrong? What would life be like during a fall out? Would you be likely to feel humiliation or failure, would you be hurt by rejection from her? Are you sensitive, confident, shy, regretful, awkward? And her?

This decision deserves time.

All the best and keep updated. :smiley:

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Uhhh.... she just started seeing another guy, again. This will be guy number 4 in 2 months. I keep supporting her when things are going good and when there going bad, relationship wise. Like tonight she is having this guy come over to hang out after she gets her kids to bed. When she told me he was coming over, She could tell that I was not as happy as I normally am. "Not that I was mad or acted jealous." I'm not sure what I was. Yes I do, I was fake in my happiness for her. Not sarcastic, just not truthful and she can tell. It's like that girl can read my mind. Now that I think about it, she told me and then just stood there waiting to see my reaction. Then she just sort of giggled at my response and was like, "ohhhh, what?" I just came back with, "This guy better not hurt you like the others." kind of statement. I told her the "I only want you to be happy" lecture, then let her know I would be downstairs in my room so she could have some personal time with him. Who knows, maybe she is dating all these guys to keep her mind occupied, maybe I should do the same. I see her and I think, "she's perfect. I love her. I have so much fun with her. Shes' my best friend. I smile all the time when I'm with her." She tells me the same thing all the time. AHhhhh... I think I should just stop putting energy into this and get a cat or something.... he he... ohhh what a crazy life I'm in. I just want to tell her she is the brightest thing in my life, next to my kids of coarse.

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I have read over your post several times and the same thought keeps coming to me:  The newness of both of your divorces combined with the fact that you are living together (albeit platonically) makes me think that your emotions are simply in overdrive because you do not have the distance from her to really think clearly.

My advice, if you want to pursue a relationship with her, is to move into your own place before you do.  I really think you need to be physically separated from her before you can make any kind of reasoned decision about her.  And frankly, she may not be ready for a relationship.  Four months post-divorce is generally a time when we want to sow our wild oats, as it were; we are free, free, free from the misery of our ex and we want to enjoy that freedom. (You don't tell us how long you have been divorced)

Although there appears to be at least a spark of attraction toward you, I just don't think it would be wise to start something with her while you two are living under the same roof - it's just going to cause so much more drama and will most likely spur you towards a sexual relationship quicker than if you had separate homes to go to after being together.  You need some distance between you so you can think clearly.

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Ok big update. We were watching "dawsons Creek" together. She asked me to watch it with her. she love that show and wanted me to watch it with her. As we're laying in her bed, she cuddled up to me and we started talking about what was happening. She asked me if we were going to talk about the giant elephant in the room? Right away I told her how I felt. She told me she felt the same way. We came to the conclusion that it just needs to be stopped. I agreed because although I can't Deni I have strong feelings for her, We felt it was just to uncomfortable and or confusing.  But wait there's more. the next night "last night" we started to watch her show again and after a couple of episodes of some cuddling she had to goto sleep for work the next day. She held my hand and started to sleep as did I. five mins later she said, " You know your really hard to fall asleep next too." I asked why?, she said, "You know why". So we started talking. She told me that there is obviously something attracting us together. and I was almost imposable to stop. So we seriously talked about how we felt and what we should do? I kissed her, It was just a peck. we said goodnight after I told her were were now kissing cousins. lol. 3 mins later, she flipped over and laid one on me I would forget. She kissed me, and very well I might add. I love her. I don't know what's next. Or what to do, But I do know it's out there now. and she feels the same way. I guess it's gonna be day by day now. I'm feeling good about it. I'll let you know how it goes. Of coarse I  sent her flowers to work today from "unknown" to "My sunshine" later everyone.

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My best advice isn't even my own! Now that it is in the open

bring her to this site and REVIEW the advice from Hawk again and again

and again. Until or unless you get it right between the two of you.

Still keep in mind that the length of time since divorces is not long and

there may still be some wild oats to sow as Serependity said.

Best wishes!!

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aaroncbridges,

SWEET!!!!!!

Now, (Thanks for the vote of confidence Roma) review what I said previously. Take things slowly. KEEP TALKING. DON'T be scared. Don't let HER be scared. Until you are both absolutely sure you are willing to proceed(sounds like you are), willing to face the drama, able to withstand it, and prepared to make a go of a life together, keep it all on the down low. It sounds like your mutual friends will be folks you can be at least a little more open with, but tread gently with family for the time being. Eventually, the hiding it and sort of sneaking around will become cumbersome, but until that point, it can be quite exciting. When it becomes cumbersome is when you will know you have moved far enough  down the road to proceed openly. When you get to that point, have your facts memorized, and don't be afraid to quote them. Anyone who will not even consider the facts would be someone to ignore. Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is when you are told better and won't recognize the truth despite the facts. It goes to the bone, and cannot be fixed. Do NOT waste time trying. Encourage her to join you for a visit to the site here, have her look around, read our advice, see if it rings true, and then get on the same page together. If you two can do that, you have the chance at many good years together ahead of you.

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I couldn't be happier. She and I are together and she says she couldn't be any happier. Me too. I love this girl and she's in love with me. We're getting along great. She has told her best friend and her friend isn't taking it to well but she doesn't care. I'm so happy about us being together that I'm afraid I will explode. I know that sound childish and I'm 44 years old but WOW. She is the best thing to happen in my life for a long long time. I want to say i'll do anything I can to make this work, however, I don't have to do much because it just works. There's no work involved. we just click! It's perfect. We plan on telling her mother in about two weeks. That's when we have a trip to the Bahamas on a cruse with her and her mother. But we think she will react fine. God I love this girl.

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Unique,

I looked, and he hasn't been back since his last post. Unless he is lurking on occasion, and sees this, and decides to log in, we may not hear from him in a while. It's only been a year and a few months, so, maybe he'll pop back in. We do have members come back after being away for quite a while. We just have to wait on them to pop in with an update, sort of like nsdc did in his thread you also posted in.

It isn't just you who is curious about how things are going with couples who have come to terms with their mutual attraction. I joined this site to advise a young member (scrubanizer. Hey Scrubby, if you lurk and see this, CHECK IN) who, the last we heard, was doing fine in his relationship with his cousin. They were both away at different Uni's, but saw each other on a regular basis. They were keeping it on the down low from family, other than her brother. He wasn't too crazy about the idea, but, so long as Scrubby treated her well, and they were happy, he wouldn't butt in, or cause drama. By now, he should be out of school, and if she isn't too, should be getting close to graduating. I've got no idea how they are doing, and have tried sending him pm's, which should link to the e-mail he used when he registered. He got me started giving advice here, and now I've not heard from him in over two years.

There are several others who were at the point of sharing their feelings, said they were going to, and then we've never heard back as to how it went. It could be that it all came crashing down, or it could be a case of "no news is good news." We just have to wait on them to check in and update us....

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Hawk, thanks for the reply. I would be nice if more folks followed up with their stories to give others insight.

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