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JohnArg

Dating my first cousin and I am about to make a move

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Iam dating my first cousin which is 11 years younger than me. She is also dating her ex. She broke up with him after 3 years but they still see each other. She told him to continue with his life and find someone else but he keeps insisting.

I first met my first cousin when she was 21. We both had relationships back then. Now we both broke up. My mother and her mother are sisters, while her father is from another country so we also don't look much like each other.

My first cousin is extremely hot. Awesome eyes, awesome body, and a very polite girl. She is the ideal character that I would want for my girlfriend and that none of my girlfriends had in the past. Generally in our families all of my cousins had good characters. We are low profile characters and that is how I would like my future woman to be.

I go out with my cousin almost every week. She is always smiling to me and we greet each other with a kiss. I believe that her ex-boyfriend is no match with me in terms of appearance, work, status, anything. She says that she has no future with him but they still see each other. Although we go out every week, when we talk on Facebook she doesn't show me any signs of interest. She doesn't try to discuss things with me, or ask me what I do. Usually I start the conversation first. But if I don't send a message for ex. 5 days she will find an excuse to send me a message first. Also, when we see each other, she constantly smiles at me but we both can't find topics to discuss easily. There is some kind of tension. We both "freeze". What's next?

I have asked her why she broke up and she told me that she didn't have many things in common with her ex. She wants to do things like going out (she wasn't going out with him at all), do some activities etc. They didn't even go for vacation together so she wasted so many years with him. Generally she likes visiting other countries which she hasn't done so far. Last year I has a relationship with a girlfriend and I was about to break it up. I had arranged to go on vacation before breaking up. Then my ex was...missing. So I offered to my cousin to come with me. She accepted and really liked the idea, although she wasn't sure that she will have a leave of absence from her work. Eventually I went on vacation with my ex (bad idea, yes I know) and I broke up with her after one month. I still regret that.

In the last weekend I met a 30 year old woman who is good looking and a good character. But she is not so beautiful like my cousin. They are both good characters as far as I know them. But I feel such a strong connection with my cousin that I can't stop thinking of her. I have even seen her in my dreams.

The question is this: I will go out with my cousin tomorrow Thursday and also on Friday, for two consecutive days. I think that I need to tell her how I feel, because I can't date two women at the same time. What I feel for my cousin is no match in what I feel for anyone else. But if I tell her exactly how I feel then I face the danger of being rejected and if she tells about the incident to her parents then all of our families will learn that I was going into her. Note that so far we went out like 20 times, and we go out every week, but besides smiling at me, there are no other signs that clearly show that she wants to have a relationship with me. We live in a country were marriages between second, third, or fourth cousins usually happen in villages, but marriages between first cousins are very rare. Personally I only read articles about relationships that broke up because families reacted badly. I live in a big city so I am not afraid that we are going to be seen. But generally it's a taboo and we won't be able to go out with friends at all, as many of them will feel disgusted about this.

Questions:
1)How should I tell her how I feel? I am thinking of something like "Sometimes do you see me more like a cousin? (smiling) I just ask as we didn't grew up together." Is this a good quote?
2)I have read tons of articles about birth defects. What are the correct percentages? 2 or 3% for ordinary couples? And what about first cousin couples? It's 6-7? In your analysis I see a percentage of 4,5% . Is this just 4-5% or + 4,5% compared to the normal population? Please clarify.
3)If a couple does a DNA test for making children, what exactly is the DNA test that they should do? Any specific description? (and mostly for first cousins?)
4)Those of you that your parents are first cousins or those of you that married your first cousin and gave birth to children, can you please post here in this post by telling me if you/your kids are born 100% fine in health or if you had any issues? (even small ones)
5)If we both do a DNA test and we find out that we both don't have any recessive genes, what is the percentage on which our future kids might inherit a recessive gene?
6)Are recessive genes vanished after some generations?
7)And finally, the above percentages of possible birth defects are an estimate IF one or both parents have recessive genes? I mean if both parents do a DNA test and they don't have recessive genes or illnesses, then the percentage of having a healthy baby would be nearly 0% (if they do a healthy life) whether they are cousins or not?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Edited by JohnArg

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Hi John. First, just to clarify, you do not currently have a romantic relationship with your cousin, correct? I ask because you say you are currently "dating" her, which, in American culture, implies a romantic relationship. However, it doesn't sound like it means quite the same thing in your context, because it sounds like there is no romantic relationship, you two just spend a lot of time doing things together.

Secondly, the genetic question is quite complicated. I wouldn't get too caught up in percentages if I were you. The percentages are only estimations, and they are dependent on a lot of things, such as:

  • Is consanguinity common in the culture? (i.e., the chances of a birth defect are higher if multiple generations marry individuals they are related to)
  • How small is the population? (i.e., if it's a small, closed culture, even if cousin couples aren't common, there is a higher chance of birth defects)
  • Are there environmental factors increasing the risk of birth defects overall?
  • How old are the parents?

There is also no perfect DNA test that will test for all possible defects. If you and your cousin do get married and decide to have children together, I would highly recommend talking to a genetic counselor about your specific risk factors, and what DNA test they would recommend based on what population/culture you are both from (which can determine what defects are more likely). 

On the point of whether or not you should tell your cousin: if you feel something for her that you don't feel for any other woman, it would be unfair to any other woman to pursue them. Sometimes in life you have to take a risk, and in your case, it sounds like a risk worth taking. Lots of people have written on these boards about possible ways to bring up your feelings, I'd definitely recommend looking around. 

 

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Hello everyone. I have important news to share!

First of all when I say "I date" I mean we just hang out. She also came to my house once (I live alone) but we had a reason, so I didn't make a move. Plus that she was still hanging out with her first relationship, so I couldn't make a move. The important news is that she completely broke up with her ex and got rid of him. They don't even speak now. The bad news is that since it was her first relationship, she felt like "prisoned". She is very young and very attractive so she has attracted the interest of hundreds of men through Facebook. So in January when I asked her "What's next" she said "I don't feel like doing a relationship. I want to have fun. Many guys approach me for a relationship but I just got out of one and I want to enjoy my freedom". Practically I might consider the same if I was her. Too bad though. Keep in mind that when she was completely broke up, I instantly asked her to come to her house to "check her new furniture in her room". She said "ok" but after 3 days she said "Oh really? I forgot we have arranged that ? " so I said "Ok you tell me when you are available" (she was like she didn't care so I threw the ball on her side).

She never appeared again. But 2 months passed and she sent me "Happy birthday" for one of my parents, and her message had lots of hearts. She asked me "What have you arranged for these days" and that is how we started going out again, mostly watching movies. Anyway, there are around 3 guys that she has met since then and was occasionally having sex with them. I think now she has at least 1 of them that she  just has sex. But she doesn't feel like going into serious relationship into any of those. Also take note: All of them are dump heads in brain with low I.Q. They are totally uneducated, with few interests, low level of knowledge in pretty much anything, doing low level jobs, so compared to me, having studies and jobs feels like a major plus.

As for the last days, we also went out around 2 times with friends. In one out of those two times, one of the guys that she already had sex with, just came into the café. She didn't kiss him or even touch him. They were like friends. And after he left, she told me in private "That was the guy that I was telling you" (probably the first guy that she had sex with after her long relationship). "Yeah, I figured that out" I said. The two of us went also out for dinner twice. She also told me that a friend of mine is sending her PMs on Facebook and asks her to go out. And she said "So what do you say? Shall I go out with him?" (either interested or holy crapoly! testing me). I replied "Why do you ask me?" Also, when we were going home last time, me, her and one of her friend, I told her "As long as you are Single, your...Facebook transfer value is growing huge girl!" (I play football as a second job so that's why I was making fun of the situation).
She said "Haha...I don't know if all those people are really flirting me. I even have messages from people that forgot I existed, just because they saw a photo of me". 
And I said "Oh yeah, sure they do flirt you! Indeed, they send you PMs when they are totally single and horny! That's what men do!"
She laughed both her and her friend and said laughing (just for fun) "How dare you speaking like this for your cousin" ?   . Then I replied "Ha...ha! "Cousin" and holy crapoly!. I should tell you something else now but I won't". Her friend was next to us. She laughed, we didn't say something else!

The bottom line is this. Since the start of the week and after I see that more and more guys flirt with her and she is not doing something serious with them, I instantly invited to go out with her, first for a special dinner and then in a bar for a romantic dinner. She said the usual stuff "We will see up to then". I was talking with an other girl on Facebook, a little cute, but a 6.5 compared to the 9/10 hotness of my cousin. So I said to myself "I am not a weak guy to wait, I have options. So am I going out with the cousin this time or go for the young girl just for sex?" So I asked my cousin again about Saturday to ensure that we will go out and she said "Yes"!

I am already hiding my feelings for like 2 years and I can't hide them anyore. If I keep doing it I will go deep into the friendzone. I have to make a move even if she looks like immature for a serious relationship/wanting to take a break after all these years. There are 3 options:

1)Making a move
2)Going into friendzone/sibling zone, whatever
3)Not seeing her so that 1 or 2 can be postponed.

So I decided to choose No. 1. The good stuff is that she likes to go out with me a lot and rarely says no. She also always doing the move to kiss me in cheeks first, and finally we have even made plans to go on vacation together on summer and even abroad! In the back of my head, she might like me, even for a little bit, because if she was seeing me 100% as a cousin, then how would she accept of sleeping with me in the same room, even in different beds? We know each other for 2 years, we haven't grown up together just to be so much comfort. Also, vacation with me, means...how exactly is she going to flirt? By having me living with her? I don't know. Looks like a small IOI here.  Also, judging from the way she touches me and she hugs me and looks at me in the eyes, I see that she must be interested. When we were going out she was feeling sleepy, so she put her head on my shoulders twice. Once in the metro and once when we were outside. Is this considered as normal for cousins that have grown up together and don't date?

The bad thing is that a few times she talks about the guys that flirt with her on Facebook. She has mentioned them like three or four times and this seems as a sign for friendzone. Also, on Facebook sometimes she replies instantly and sometimes it takes several hours for her. So I am really confused.

Possible quote for kissing: A)"Are you good at keeping secrets?" -> B) I am about to ask you something that you will erase from your memory right after, -> C) "Do you always see me as a cousin, or something more?"
I think that she will reply "I don't know" , or "Why are you asking?" so she might try to dribble the question. That's the best scenario. I can't imagine the worst (being humiliated in my whole family for instance).

- Is consanguinity common in the culture? -> Not at all.


- How small is the population? -> We live in a big city so no worries.
- Are there environmental factors increasing the risk of birth defects overall? -> Nope.
- How old are the parents? -> My mother is 59, her mother is 58. My father is 65, her father is 69. Her mother gave birth to her when she was 35. Bad sign as well?
Edited by JohnArg

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I love your thread JohnArg! :) I read your entry multiple times, just so you know. :) And I really do understand where you are coming from....

Here's my question though:

1. Do you really like her? That's a general question with a yes or no answer. But before you answer, let me qualify what I want to really ask. It is obvious that you are attracted to her. You say that she is hot, a 9/10 as per your estimation. She is hot, 23-year old, she takes care of herself, awesome physically that would really make you "hrrrnnnng"... Know what I'm sayin?! Add to that the fact that she is extroverted, full of energy and smiles and just have that.... glow. Daaannngg.. Irresistible, eh?! Jeez... I bet she smells good too.... You don't need to confirm it -- I know you feel this way. ;) You mentioned that she is the one you would like to have as a girlfriend. If that's the case, what's stopping you? That's why I ask: do you really like her?

I mean, what do you want to happen (in all seriousness) with her? What's your plan? You got about three options: Do you want to have a long term relationship with her? Or probably just to have a "short-term-fling". Or have the latter and see if it can develop to the former? Or what's your deal, really? Now until this answer is resolved within you, my answer to you will vary. You have to be clear first if you just want to "slay" her or "make her your wife" or "just be her girlfriend" or somewhere along those lines... All of which, by the way have pros and cons.. And so as a guy, you gotta come clean within you first.

So from this point, I will make a solid assumption. I assume that you just want to 'slay' her...and by that I mean, just have see whether she is good under the sheets. And I believe that my assumption is valid because:

1) Generally, guys (we) do not want our girl(s) to be sleeping with somebody else; (2) You use the term "IOI" which gives me some sort of direction of what you want to do with her (at least in the short run)...I mean, mentioning IOI's sounds at least to me not the "traditional way of courting" or the "classical approach" and somewhere along those lines and but rather how the "current dating dynamics" are being played out; (3) She is not looking for anything serious and I bet as a guy you wouldn't too! lol; 

I can probably name some more based on your couple of posts but those three might be enough.

Having said my piece then, here's my take:

1. Be a jerk to her

Try your best to be a jerk... make it intentional... I know that it might hurt you more than her but you are a guy -- so deal with it. If something you do will hurt you "10 units", if it hurts her "5 units", just freaking do it. Be an annoyance to her. For example, call her names. You actually did a good job in calling her out and poking her but make sure you do it "tug" her emotions. Hurt her one time then comfort her the next time. Call her a "slut" for example. Shock her...Rock the boat a little bit.. Then let's see what happens. Remember that she loved jerks before. So she will repeat that. She has a jerk ex and you would want to be the "adventurous jerk", not the friend. Doing something scandalous might help you. And so use your being cousins to your advantage. There is the "taboo" feeling associated with cousin couples and you can use that for her to "rebel" and so she will go with you and you can do what you do best as a "man". You can now go from there.

2. Hold on with breaks on doing those vacations thing 

In other words, don't put out the best vacation arrangement from your end. Make her work for it if she really wants to go with you. What you want to do is to give the impression that she is getting not 100% of you but only 30-40%. You provide a budget then work from there. Make sure that you don't spend a lot for her. What you want is not the vacation after all but everything that is her "physically" (keeping it PG-13). lol

3. Go for the kiss -- a long kiss.

13 hours ago, JohnArg said:

Possible quote for kissing: A)"Are you good at keeping secrets?" -> B) I am about to ask you something that you will erase from your memory right after, -> C) "Do you always see me as a cousin, or something more?"
I think that she will reply "I don't know" , or "Why are you asking?" so she might try to dribble the question. That's the best scenario. I can't imagine the worst (being humiliated in my whole family for instance).

You know what you are doing, my friend... :) You are right on track. I suggest removing the "Do you always see me as a cousin, or something more?" but rather just freaking kiss her. Long. And mean it. Make her feel that she is a woman and you are a man. Grab her on her waist and pull her neck close to you. Make sure that she is not in the "guy#1,2,3" thinking mood on that moment. Of course, afterwards, she will still desire the attention of those guys and so on and so forth.. and you will be just merely guy#5...or #6.. depending on your 'charm'. lol. And from this point, we (ie. you and me) can't control things anymore. Know what I am saying? She is 23, she feels that she is hot and desirable and like that. Remember the man rule: If you don't make a move to her, somebody else will. So you know, you might as well join the party.. :D Remember how hot she is again?! Dang... :D Keep the physical escalation on "acceptable level" but ask questions like, "Where do you like to be touched?". Probably she likes to have a shoulder massage or a back rub or something like that -- and it's gonna be a win-win.The end result that she can be a good fwb with you, a good arrangement that you would like to have for at least 3 years. If you got that, then you are a winner. harhar..

By the way, don't worry about being being humiliated in your whole family because that won't happen. Remember that she wants a bad boy?! She won't tell anybody, dude...except her close friends. And for that, so what!? Who cares!? Your inner response would be, "Well, she's hot and I am attracted to her, what should a man do!?" Know what I'm saying? It's not like you can hold on these things, eh? You simply just approach her and you find her attractive and would want some quality action (emphasis added. lol). She won't tell your aunt (her mom); after all, she haven't told her that she's sleeping with multiple guys in the first place, right? She, making a scandalous move and going ballistic in Thanksgiving dinner like, "Heeey everyone! I just like everybody to know that JohnArg has been hitting on me!!" lol. Nope. That is impossible to happen. If she catches "feelings" for you (and be girlfriend-ish), well.... that's another story. Coz if I were in your shoes and given the premises above, I would not want her to be my girlfriend. lol. But it's just me, and my opinion...It is what it is.. Up to you my friend. :)

 

Pooch

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for what it's worth, i don't think you should be a jerk to her. i hope you're not so shallow as to just want to "slay" her and see how good she is in the sack. because if that's the case, then you really would be a jerk. but i don't really think that's the case. you seem to really like her. 

in which case, maybe you should broach the subject. humor is always a good way to initiate the conversation. 

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oh, and i kinda like the "are you good at keeping secrets?" approach... followed by a (very quick) kiss. don't make it a long one unless she responds.

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"Be a jerk to her"  Come on Pooch do you really think advising some one to be a jerk is really good advice?

I would hate to think if that was my cousin looking for advice I would have to wonder or worry that some 

stranger on a website was telling him to treat me bad and act like a jerk.

Just  because there have been people in her past that acted that way is no reason the OP should do it.

Maybe , just maybe, by being himself and "non- jerky" he will still have a chance with her. And I hope that

for goodness sake his plan isn't just to get her "between the sheets".  

 

 

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Just to clarify - the age of your cousin's parents or your parents doesn't matter. What matters is how old you and she are if you decide to have children. For example, a woman over 35 has about a 10% increased risk of birth defects compared to a woman under 35. Not something you two need to worry about for a while, since she's 23.

And let me add my support to LadyC and Romalee in saying "being a jerk" to a woman you are interested in (or any woman for that matter) is terrible advice. In fact, I hope you ignore that whole post, as much of what  "Pooch" suggests sounds like sexual harassment, and if a guy behaved that way towards me, far from being impressed, I would immediately distance myself as much as possible.

I think you have some good ideas about opening lines. Good luck!

 

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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 5:18 PM, Romalee said:

"Be a jerk to her"  Come on Pooch do you really think advising some one to be a jerk is really good advice?

I would hate to think if that was my cousin looking for advice I would have to wonder or worry that some 

stranger on a website was telling him to treat me bad and act like a jerk.

Just  because there have been people in her past that acted that way is no reason the OP should do it.

Maybe , just maybe, by being himself and "non- jerky" he will still have a chance with her. And I hope that

for goodness sake his plan isn't just to get her "between the sheets".  

 

 

Well, I will let Jon respond then... But Romalee, allow me to voice out my POV

This is  the impression I am getting from his post. For example, first sentence:

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:22 PM, JohnArg said:

Iam dating my first cousin which is 11 years younger than me. She is also dating her ex. She broke up with him after 3 years but they still see each other. She told him to continue with his life and find someone else but he keeps insisting.

(1) 11 years younger; (2) Girl dating multiple guys, on and off. (3) She is 21,  hot and got all the attention. Actually she has lots of attention she forgets them! Exhibit A

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, JohnArg said:

Too bad though. Keep in mind that when she was completely broke up, I instantly asked her to come to her house to "check her new furniture in her room". She said "ok" but after 3 days she said "Oh really? I forgot we have arranged that ? " so I said "Ok you tell me when you are available" (she was like she didn't care so I threw the ball on her side).

This indicates to me that whatever "he" is, whatever he is saying or doing does not stick to her. It just does not stick. He is just another guy, a regular guy, a guy on that corner, being seen but not really being seen. He is the "Welcome mat" of every house. This is hurtful to a guy's pride, you know, especially if it's coming from a girl we really like. But then "Settling for the right guy" is not on her priority list. She loves the jocks, the jerks and the popular guys. It sounds high schoolish but it is what it is... typical freshman in college. Then he added,

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:22 PM, JohnArg said:

I believe that her ex-boyfriend is no match with me in terms of appearance, work, status, anything. She says that she has no future with him but they still see each other.

The girl likes to be with somebody with whom she sees having no good future with. Very typical millennial. If she's 21, then she is born 1997-ish. Still figuring out stuff, herself, her sexuality, her ideals in relationships, things like that... Jon, on the other hand, is the 'good guy', the 'nice guys" and we all know generally speaking that nice guys finish last. Everybody knows that, correct? Hence, he needs to be a jerk a little bit (and by jerk I do not mean to be rude to turn her off...but be unreliable, treat her crap a little bit and be annoying... Otherwise, our threadstarter here will be very boring. And what will happen? She will dump him or worse, be friendzoned. And he does not want that to happen. Hence, he needs to step on the gas and go a little bit wild -- take the ride with her. Know what I'm saying? Jon here is 11 years older than the girl and he has his life and crap together. But the girl is hot and attractive, what is a guy to do!? You know!? Then it gets better. 

On ‎1‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:22 PM, JohnArg said:

I have asked her why she broke up and she told me that she didn't have many things in common with her ex. She wants to do things like going out (she wasn't going out with him at all), do some activities etc. They didn't even go for vacation together so she wasted so many years with him. Generally she likes visiting other countries which she hasn't done so far.

She broke up with the ex merely because she did not have anything in common. Translation: She broke up with her ex because she is bored. Got it? That's the kind of girl we are dealing with. If she is bored, then the guy either have to be a circus monkey or be a jerk to keep her around. If the former, he is friendzoned. If the latter, either he will lose her or he will be an 'adventure' to her. I bet the girl likes social media sooooo much that her Instagram has a bajillion followers. Lots of girls are envious of her but her friends stuck with her coz she is popular. lolz. It is very typical, you know? Presenting Exhibit B:

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, JohnArg said:

As for the last days, we also went out around 2 times with friends. In one out of those two times, one of the guys that she already had sex with, just came into the café. She didn't kiss him or even touch him. They were like friends

Then Exhibit ?

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, JohnArg said:

Also, when we were going home last time, me, her and one of her friend, I told her "As long as you are Single, your...Facebook transfer value is growing huge girl!" (I play football as a second job so that's why I was making fun of the situation).
She said "Haha...I don't know if all those people are really flirting me. I even have messages from people that forgot I existed, just because they saw a photo of me". 

I can name a whole lot more exhibits as the thread is obvious. :D

Last point:

A guy won't treat a girl "long-term criteria" (ie. girlfriend material) if we know she sleeps around. I believe that many girls do this discreetly (especially being freshmen in college and at 21!!) but in Jon's case, it's even blatant. She even shares her sexcapades with him and thus is very open and comfortable. No shame, eh? But it is what it is. lol. 

But guess what, our guy Jon here is not fazed and so I give him credit for that. He is not like a "dog" that is offered a bone and go chasing after the girl. He seems to "fold his arms" , shake his head and say "No" and call her bluff every single time, that's why she is semi-interested with him. The problem is he got to up the gear the next level; lest she becomes bored. As soon as she becomes bored, she will feel disgusted towards him. But the mistake comes when Jon wants two things: he wants his attractive cousin and at the same time wants a "long term deal" with other girls that are more "girlfriendly". That cannot happen, unfortunately. Either you become one or become the other hence my comment:

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:03 AM, pooch said:

Now until this answer is resolved within you, my answer to you will vary. You have to be clear first if you just want to "slay" her or "make her your wife" or "just be her girlfriend" or somewhere along those lines... All of which, by the way have pros and cons.. And so as a guy, you gotta come clean within you first.

He has to come clean within himself first. Otherwise, he will be on a crossroads. On his first post, he sounds he wants to have a long term relationship with her. Bad idea. This is evident by the second post. Hence, my suggestion is just pull his pants up and "go ahead and kiss her hard"...something that will make him memorable and will "stand out"

Basically, if the girl is travelling at 140 km/hr at this point, in order to slow her down, you should not drive at 100 km/hr even if that's who you are and beg for her to slow down. Rather, drive at 150 km/hr then see what you can do from there -- either you take the control and both of you slow down (less likely) or live up to your 150 km/hr and have your fun. :D

That's all what I mean, Romallee. :)

 

Pooch

 

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Pooch, when i was 21, i was a hot young thing. and i was pretty promiscuous. and yet, there were some guys who were the nice guys... and even to this day, they'll tell me they would have married me if i'd been interested. i know, because i've had that very conversation with them. let me tell you why they stayed firmly in the friend-zone for me. i didn't sleep with those guys because i was afraid i'd lose them. yeah, i'm sure it sucked for them to be stuck in friend-zone, but 30 years later, they're still my friends. and i love them for having never treated me like a slut even though that would have 'appeared' to be the kind of guy i'd give myself away to.

pooch, that girl he's talking about isn't acting like a millenial, she's acting like a 21 year old who has been 'taught' by men that her only value is in bed. she's acting like a young woman who has no self-worth because she's learned to do what it takes to feel, even for a moment, like someone cares. just a little. even if it's just an illusion.

yes, it's possible that the OP will get lost in friendzone forever. but it's also possible that by treating her the way she should be treated instead of the way she expects to be treated, that one day she'll believe she's worth more than her body-parts. and she'll know without a doubt that her cousin is the one that gave her that confidence. and it's even very possible that when she does get to the point where she's capable of accepting love from a good guy, that he'll be the one she is able to accept love from, and return love to.

i totally get that you've been really hurt by your own cousin, and with your most recent post in this thread, i'm finally beginning to understand the point of view from which you give advice... or the way you sometimes talk to the women who post here. i know, you and i have had that discussion in this in the past, in private messages. at the time i thought you were just being creepy. but now that i'm starting to understand the motivation behind it all, i'm seeing it's simply that you're trying to dig to the root of why YOUR cousin hurt YOU.

i'm sorry you've been hurt, but try not to project your experience on others. because this is one thing i can promise you... the reason your cousin hurt you is because she is a wounded soul and hasn't yet learned how to be any other way.

@JohnArg, I'm sorry I temporarily derailed your thread. Please, don't give up on your cousin. I derailed this publically because now that I know Pooch's reasoning behind his advice, I thought you might benefit from also understanding where he's coming from. He's trying to protect you from having what happened to him happen to you, and I get that. And he's right, it might land you in the friend-zone, but is that really the worst place to be? Because if you treat her nicely and she learns to value herself as a result, and begins making better choices for herself, won't that be worth it?

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Thanks for the reply LadyC,

You know I really appreciate your comments and I highly respect your inputs.

Inasmuch as I would like to comment, same here I don't want to hijack Jon's thread. lol. I will let Jon respond first since I believe we all would want to help him and so whatever his situation is, that's what's more important. :) Just so that we have more information....

Hence, I'll leave it at that. 

 

 

Pooch

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3 hours ago, MissPrice said:

Just to clarify - the age of your cousin's parents or your parents doesn't matter. What matters is how old you and she are if you decide to have children. For example, a woman over 35 has about a 10% increased risk of birth defects compared to a woman under 35. Not something you two need to worry about for a while, since she's 23.

And let me add my support to LadyC and Romalee in saying "being a jerk" to a woman you are interested in (or any woman for that matter) is terrible advice. In fact, I hope you ignore that whole post, as much of what  "Pooch" suggests sounds like sexual harassment, and if a guy behaved that way towards me, far from being impressed, I would immediately distance myself as much as possible.

I think you have some good ideas about opening lines. Good luck!

 

1. Sexual harassment!? ? Whoa whoa whoa... Hold your horses. What in the world...? ?

2. 

Quote

and if a guy behaved that way towards me, far from being impressed, I would immediately distance myself as much as possible.

Exactly. And that's what I said.

1 hour ago, pooch said:

If she is bored, then the guy either have to be a circus monkey or be a jerk to keep her around. If the former, he is friendzoned. If the latter, either he will lose her or he will be an 'adventure' to her.

To a more matured, thinking woman like you MissPrice, who have probably has more experience in life and things like that, you will distance yourself to these guys, right? However, the case is the opposite to the girl that our threadstarter Jon is being interested with. Common themes of: 21 years old, social media, college, promiscuity, dating, friends, excitement, drinking, partying, blah blah blah... And so the dynamics will totally shift. And isn't it that's what the kind of guys this girl is being attracted to? The uneducated, few interests, low level of knowledge and doing low level jobs? It is obvious!

 

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, JohnArg said:

The bad news is that since it was her first relationship, she felt like "prisoned". She is very young and very attractive so she has attracted the interest of hundreds of men through Facebook

 

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 7:51 PM, JohnArg said:

Anyway, there are around 3 guys that she has met since then and was occasionally having sex with them. I think now she has at least 1 of them that she  just has sex. But she doesn't feel like going into serious relationship into any of those. Also take note: All of them are dump heads in brain with low I.Q. They are totally uneducated, with few interests, low level of knowledge in pretty much anything, doing low level jobs, so compared to me, having studies and jobs feels like a major plus.

But to throw sexual harassment out there is like a cannon killing a mosquito. No wonder our threadstarter Jon here would be friendzoned. :( If he will not make a move, the other guys will. He is mistaken that his status and having his life together at 32 might give him an edge with her. Far from it. She forgets that he existed because he is "just there", a bland and boring guy. Now if that "sexual harassment thinggie" roams at the back of his mind, that's pretty much game over for him. For what did I say? I said,

 

On ‎4‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:03 AM, pooch said:

I suggest removing the "Do you always see me as a cousin, or something more?" but rather just freaking kiss her. Long. And mean it. Make her feel that she is a woman and you are a man. Grab her on her waist and pull her neck close to you. Make sure that she is not in the "guy#1,2,3" thinking mood on that moment. Of course, afterwards, she will still desire the attention of those guys and so on and so forth.. and you will be just merely guy#5...or #6.. depending on your 'charm'. lol.

What I mean is 'go strong' and not be wishy-washy. Being a noodle at this point will be fruitless since his cousin-crush is like a wild mare. The "grabbing on the waist" is up to him and should not be taken literally like you really would yank her waist with force, without consent, and would hurt her. Yeesh.. Relax. Of course, no thinking guy means that...and I do not by any chance mean that. Sigh. What I mean is being a man and making her feel a woman but at the same time, do not be soooo gentle... I'm not sure if a reference in medicine will apply but don't be gentle like he's doing a heart transplant. lol... but be aggressive and gentle like a doctor aiding childbirth. (haha.. if it applies then it's good, if not, then whatever. lol) ?

 

Anyways, to more important stuff:

3 hours ago, MissPrice said:

Just to clarify - the age of your cousin's parents or your parents doesn't matter. What matters is how old you and she are if you decide to have children. For example, a woman over 35 has about a 10% increased risk of birth defects compared to a woman under 35. Not something you two need to worry about for a while, since she's 23.


I agree with this. Many cousin couples get stifled because of genetics. The age of parents, however, does not matter. What matters is the age of the couple. The increased birth defects, however, is not too significant to be a concern. I mean, we all take risks all the time in our lives but we minimize the aversion for risk by considering all options. In this case, if the woman is in her 20s, even if you are cousins, it's not a problem and you can afford the risks. The problem comes when the woman reaches in her 40s. At this point, personally, I wouldn't suggest having children altogether.

The recessive genes does not "vanish" but it gets more insignificant as generation passes. The way I see it is like multiplying fractions. The more you "square a fraction", the smaller it becomes. 1/2 becomes 1/4 and becomes 1/16....and so forth. The "bad stuff" gets swallowed.. Now of course, there are other factors but insofar as this question is concerned, that's about it..

 

 

Pooch

 

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Pooch, whatever your intended message, telling a guy to grab a girl and kiss her without ascertaining her feeling first is a bad idea. I and pretty much every woman I know has at some point been grabbed and kissed, fondled, caressed, whatever when it was not what we wanted. That is an "unwanted sexual advance", which is textbook sexual harassment. And this is textbook emotional abuse:

On 4/27/2018 at 12:03 PM, pooch said:

For example, call her names. You actually did a good job in calling her out and poking her but make sure you do it "tug" her emotions. Hurt her one time then comfort her the next time. Call her a "slut" for example. 

 

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In a teasing way of course...

Of course if the woman does not want that, a guy will be equally repulsed by it and would stop. Isnt it? If a woman is no longer in the mood, guys at the same time won't be and we will stop. Of course some guys won't and that gets us into trouble but for the most part, if the girl is flirty the guy should be too... Jon should assume that it is a green light until its red. If he goes too much then its a red...a normal guy will stop because we want to have a good time and enjoy the company of the partner as well, right?

Calling names is a sign that he is comfortable in teasing her -- not to demean her and make her cry! There's nothing more "emergency" than a girl crying -- especially if things become way too serious. Some guys will even stay away as soon as the girl becomes porcupine-ish and moody. We will just leave them alone and let them figure things out. In no way this is harassment. I think this is just the normal banter of men and women as the evolutionary model takes us. We dont want to do anything with a girl who is "not in the mood", know what I mean? If the girl cries, unless a guy is really mean or just plain stupid, he should stay away and take off his foot from the gas pedal...

Im coming from that POV, miss price...not the creepy guy who does not know his place...

The two posts given by the threadstarter seems to give that information that we can work with. For example, he said though that she is a polite girl, so she is not too brash since she got a good character. Exhibit D

Quote

My first cousin is extremely hot. Awesome eyes, awesome body, and a very polite girl. She is the ideal character that I would want for my girlfriend and that none of my girlfriends had in the past. Generally in our families all of my cousins had good characters. We are low profile characters and that is how I would like my future woman to be.

All of these must be considered...

Hope u understand where Im coming from. ?

Anyhow, I want to know Jon's response first so that we can have more information. Lots of things are still loose ends to be honest. For example,

Quote

Also, judging from the way she touches me and she hugs me and looks at me in the eyes, I see that she must be interested. When we were going out she was feeling sleepy, so she put her head on my shoulders twice. Once in the metro and once when we were outside. Is this considered as normal for cousins that have grown up together and don't date?

she's VERY comfortable with him. It can be a good thing or can be a VERY bad thing... Good thing coz she trusts him and she is friends with him. But Jon here wants to be more than friends...actually I take that back, he does not want her to be his friend. He wants to be a lover to her, a fling of some sort... If you call her suuuper politely with all the "Please and Thank yous", you are in a host of trouble.. LOL. but if you call her a slut (of course in a context...in a teasing way..and all guys know this...) you may shock her and that's what you want. Of course you don't mean that -- but the shock will make him be noticed. Remember that she has tons of friends in facebook and that she even forgets any arrangements she had with him!? Yikes... That's so sad.. :(

 

Personally speaking, I remembered one time when me and my cousin-gf had a 'break' in our relationship. Long story. But anyhow, I became interested with another cute girl. My cousin and I are still together (kinda) and deep in my heart I still love her. But there's this cute girl that suddenly just popped in the corner of my eyes since we were classmates when I'm taking my post-secondary program. I never made a move to her because I respect my cousin and I love her. I guess at that time, I just want to cross over this "friends" section with this cute girl. If something happens, then it is what it is... Now my point is this, there is one point when I commented to her, "You know what, you are way cuter if you wear a skirt rather than pants". Then I leave it at that. At this point, me and the cute girl classmate are in good terms, friends and all and see each other everyday. My cousin, on the other hand, is in a different country. My point is this: she did not wear a skirt and kept wearing pants.

Now of course, it sounds trivial for you (and it might be..whatever..) or that it may be a small deal. But when I made that comment, I really do mean it... like I want to test whether I, Pooch, have something in her.. like I want to check whether she likes me too or that the effect will be something that will stuck in her mind and that would alter her choice of clothes. But then guess what -- it didn't. I can't explain it in full but it is actually a point in time that it turned me off to her. LOL

Anyways, to relate it to Jon our threadstarter though, I would feel bad if he makes an arrangement about the checking out the furniture then she forgets it, flakes, and like it didn't happen. Either I will call her a "Amnesia-prone-crazy-woman" in a teasing way or I will just leave her alone. In my personal case above, because I still love my cousin, I left that 9/10 woman alone...

 

 

Pooch

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there is no scenario where a guy could "teasingly" call a girl a  slut. it's like a white person calling a black person the N word.

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32 minutes ago, LadyC said:

there is no scenario where a guy could "teasingly" call a girl a  slut. it's like a white person calling a black person the N word.

Hmm.. I see. I got what you mean... If that's the case, then it's overboard... He should not do it if it's counterproductive. Jon would know what's best though in the situation given to him though that's why more info is needed. He take the principles (the main points) then see if it can align it to what his goals are with his relationship with his cousin.

By the way, I even have the idea of him jokingly in a dramatic way telling her, "Cous you know what, we definitely should NOT do this coz we are cousins! Your parents are gonna be very very very very veeerrryyy mad at me!" (haha..) then see what happens. ? She might go, "Why!?? What did we do!?" and he can ride out the typical freshmen drama. lol.

The point is that if he can instill that him liking her is a "bad move" but for some reason "can't help it", she will like him even more. If Jon is really a nice guy, he might say, "You know what, I really am trying to be nice here... I DO NOT want to be like your past ex-boyfriends... and so you can be bad to me" and just pretty much just risk it. lol. If she likes him, then it will separate Jon from the flock. If she gets bored with him, then he won't get the girl anyways -- no harm done. 

 

Pooch

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