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      Get Smart on the Web   09/16/2016

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Guest heetz08

once again in pa

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once again i get stuck with the way our laws are wrote and shaped and still cant get a straight awsner.... The pa statue foe incest reads as such

? 4302.  Incest.

        A person is guilty of incest, a felony of the second degree,

    if that person knowingly marries or cohabits or has sexual

    intercourse with an ancestor or descendant, a brother or sister

    of the whole or half blood or an uncle, aunt, nephew or niece of

    the whole blood. The relationships referred to in this section

    include blood relationships without regard to legitimacy, and

    relationship of parent and child by adoption.

    (Nov. 17, 1989, P.L.592, No.64, eff. 60 days; Mar. 31, 1995, 1st

    Sp.Sess., P.L.985, No.10, eff. 60 days)

        1995 Amendment.  Section 18 of Act 10, 1st Sp.Sess., provided

    that the amendment of section 4302 shall apply to offenses

    committed on or after the effective date of Act 10.

        Cross References.  Section 4302 is referred to in section

    3304 of Title 5 (Athletics and Sports); sections 5303, 6344,

    6702 of Title 23 (Domestic Relations); sections 5552, 6358,

    6402, 6403, 9718.1, 9795.1, 9795.4, 9802, 9903 of Title 42

    (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure); section 2303 of Title 44

    (Law and Justice).

now where i get confused is is it incest for fist second or third cousins

Alittle guidance understanding if in fact we can come out and tell people or keep it quiet in fear of jail

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heetz08,

OK, ok, ok, I won't poke you! How about I gently nudge you a little though? REMEMBER, YOU AREN'T GOING TO GET LEGAL ADVICE HERE. I just want you to see what the law says for yourself. That way you don't end up going off half cocked and making assumptions not based in reality. Again, you may need an attorney to interpret the gibberish that is the language of the law these days. Reading it over a few times usually helps bring what it is actually saying down to the kitchen table, if you will.

Now,PROVIDED this is a current version, I don't see "cousin" of ANY degree listed here. HOWEVER, you seem to be on the right trail of the wabbit here.

Now, look at your cross references. See anything that might be of interest? Humm? You don't say anything about being the athletic type, so you can probably skip title 5. Next, you have domestic relations. Now this may very well be worthwhile reading, depending on your current or future situation. Seems like you might want to poke around in Title 23 a little, and look at those sections and see what you find. Next, you have Judiciary and Judicial Procedure. This would seem to be what you are worried about. Go ahead and poke around in those sections of Title 42. Here is another caveat. This will undoubtedly be some of the driest, most unintelligible dribble you have ever read. This is what law school is all about, translating this sort of thing. The section in title 44 (Law and Justice) will probably be as bad or worse! However, again, PROVIDED this is all current, and cousins are not actually listed here, I would not stress unduly over those two sections. Go poke around in Title 23. Domestic Relations probably has the answers to your root questions. There will most likely be, in one of those sections, the restrictions on everything from parent/child marriage to first cousin marriage. I would bet one of those sections will deal with declaring a marriage null and void, and the circumstances that trigger such action. The info on the main page has the marriage stuff listed under a Section 1703. It does not say what title of the code that is in. It may be Title 23, Domestic Relations. If you look at that page,(from the link on the main page here) it says cousin marriages ARE voidable, to an extent. A challenge must be made while the parties are alive. If the marriage was not dissolved during the lifetime of the parties, heirs, (or whoever) cannot come back at some later time and challenge it. Here again, PROVIDED this section has not been amended since the time it was noted here.

You are on the right track here, keep digging. You may have to read this stuff several times to really get the gist of what it is and (in this case) is not saying.

Talk to friends. Do you know someone who has gone through a divorce? See who had the better lawyer, and see what it would cost to spend a little time with this lawyer. Lady C was exactly right in that speaking to a lawyer won't get you in trouble with the law, those conversations are privileged. The more of the law you know up front though will not hurt the conversation. You can just ask for clarification on anything you don't fully get. By the looks of the wording in section 4302 you quote here, you would talk to a family law attorney as opposed to a criminal law attorney. Family law attorneys are usually pretty well up on these sort of things. I doubt voiding a marriage comes up all that often, but most of them will have probably dealt with a case or know of a case where it has came up.

Like I said in the other thread, Happy Hunting. You're getting warmer....

Hawk

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I'm from PA too, I wish they would just lighten up already :embarrassed: Anyway a good friend is a lawyer & this is how he explained it to me. {I asked about first cousins}

Your cousin is NOT your:

~Ancestor/Descendant, meaning it's not a parent/child in anyway (this includes grand, great-grand, etc). {I assume this includes step-parents/children but I didn't ask because it wasn't the information I was after}

~Brother/Sister (half or whole), meaning they can't share at least one of the same parents with you.

~Aunt/Uncle, meaning they are not your mother or fathers sister/brother.

~Neice/Nephew of the whole blood {Again I'm not sure if this means that if your halfbrother has a son/daughter & you hook up if that is incest (I would assume not because it's not whole blood), because I didn't ask as it didn't pertain to me}

So therefore no, it is not incest to have sexual relations with your cousin. And no it is not incest {nor can any actions through the court or children services be taken again you} to have a child with your cousin & yes you can list them as them as the parent.

The part about legitimacy, PA has the presumption of paternity law which means if your married & your wife has a baby by another man it's still presumed that your the father. So it's also presumed that your biologically related, hence still incest.

Adoption, PA state law doesn't take adoption into account in the case of incest between a parent & child {don't hook up with your adoptive mom/dad or your adoptive son/daughter}. But all the other incest restrictions are dropped with the factor of adoption.

I say your other post & didn't answer but I will throw it in here. It is NOT illegal in the state of PA to live, have sexual relations with, or have a relationship with your cousin {I once told it to a cop after almost getting him arrested, long story but he was tickling me in the yard at a family BBQ & the shut in old lady next door thought he was attacking me & called the cops! Really embarrassing when they showed up & put him in cuffs without even asking what happened. But he asked if he was my bf & I said yes then he asked about his name & I flat out told the cop he was my first cousin & that we were in a relationship}. We have been living together since 2000 & have may documents saying we are cousins & a couple, noone has ever said a thing about it.

It is illegal to MARRY your cousin, as in: they won't let you do it, not: they'll prosecute you. If you marry in another state it is voidable {read: NOT void} in PA which means if someone argues the marriage or one dies without a will it will not be treated as a vaild marriage. As long as there is no problems in the marriage {that would lead to one person wanting out} & noone dies without a will {which could mean the family arguing that it wasn't a valid marriage} you should be okay.

Note that this is NOT legal advice, because I am not a lawyer. It's what I've learned after may years of asking questions, reading everything I could get my hands on & talking to a lawyer friends {who wasn't getting paid so it's not really legal advice either  :girl_haha: }

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ty hes4me that was extreamly helpfull i talked to a local lawyer yesterday and asked about the incest law and he said that no it is not incest to have sex with a first cousin..And now reading what u wrote it makes it all the clearer... i will assume that if ive heard it more than once we might be ok... All we want is to quit hiding it and be like every other couple on earth..... so thanks glad there was someone else from pa roaming around...

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No problem :yes: When we started out it was rough for a little while as our families adjusted to it, but trust me the saying "what is worth the prize is worth the fight" is so true!

If you don't mind me asking, where in PA are you at? I'm way down in the bottom west corner, I can look out my window & see Wv.

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