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CousinFacts

Groundbreaking new documentary project

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Hello All!

Before I begin, I'd like to assure you that we've spoken with KC, the founder of this site, and gained her support and approval in sharing our project with you.

My name is Rebecca, and I work with a well-established casting and production company that is looking to help bring cousin marriage to the forefront of the marriage equality fight.

These forums are a safe space for real people in cousin couples to share their stories, fight misinformation, and gain support for their relationships. As you know first-hand, real people are living with this stigma in their everyday lives, and it needs to be addressed. Love is love, whether between cousins or otherwise!

We believe it?s time to lift the stigma and help people in cousin relationships feel empowered, loved, and respected. We're looking to extend that safe space - to share your stories on a larger stage - and show the world that all love is valid.

I'm sure you have received requests from media outlets in the past, so I want to assure you that our documentary is in favor of cousin marriage, cousin couples, and love in general - we would never have gained KC's stamp of approval otherwise.

In an effort to help spread the truth about cousin relationships, we have launched a blog to give people a community they feel accepted in. Check it out: http://cousinfacts.tumblr.com/

If you're between the ages of 18 and 30, and are in any way romantically involved with a 1st or 2nd cousin, we would love to hear your story and learn more about you.

We want to help you feel empowered enough to share your story with others and really bring this issue to the forefront. Please message me directly through this site, or you can email us and share your story via [email protected].

Thank you, we are ready and willing to help your fight for this worthy cause!

Best,

Rebecca

Rebecca R

Casting Producer

LES Casting

[email protected]

www.lescasting.com

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kc is a man, not a woman.

i was looking over your tumbler page. most of it i could appreciate. but this gave me pause:

Reblog if people can confide, confess, vent, share, reminisce, gush, brag, or otherwise tell you about their current or past relationship, romance, eroticism, fling, encounter, experimentation, hookup, swinging, threesome, crush, attraction, infatuation, or love for or with a close relative or family member (blood related, step, in-law, or adopted), whether a cousin, sibling, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, parent, grandparent, adult child or grandchild.

If you don?t judge consenting lovers, but rather support the rights of people who have enjoyed consanguinamory, also known as consensual incest or consanguineous sex or relationships, and welcome contact from them, reblog this so people know who the allies are.

cousin relationships are not incestuous. consanguineous, yes, but not incestuous.

i'm not really sure i'm too enthusiastic about encouraging people to contact a show that wants to talk to people who want to share 'eroticism', who have 'hooked up, experimented, had 3somes, or have been swingers' with a 'cousin, sibling, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, parent, grandparent, adult child or grandchild.

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Ahhh I didn't read all of that page. The email didn't mention any of this  :embarrassed:

I think it would be better just to keep the media out of here. Nobody seems to be interested anyway. The novelty has worn thin around here.

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Hey everyone. The post you're referring to is a post we reblogged to show our support of other people, but is not associated with our cause. We are interested in relationships between cousins and do not see it as incest (because it?s not!). As you can see from our blog, all of the information we?re spreading is fact-based posts that we hope can help fight the misinformation and stigmas associated with cousin marriage in the US. Again, we are supporters of this cause, but the only way we can enact real change in this country is if people are strong enough to stand together and speak up and tell their stories!

We apologize for any confusion and hope that some of you are willing to speak with us further about it.  We are here to support you, not to make you feel uncomfortable, so apologies again for the confusion!

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well i do agree with that, and yes, your info on that page IS fact based, and very much appreciated. i'll let others make their own decisions on this, but just so you know, we've been unsuccessful at getting people to even do a documentary on lifetime tv, which we highly recommended. but i do hope you'll keep your page up, you never know when people will change their minds and be willing to step forward. it's been about ten years since anyone was interested in doing media appearances, and my husband and i were among those leading the pack. well, actually there was one other couple more recently who was all set to go on a show, but before they could start taping, the husband was killed in a motorcycle accident. that was just last fall.

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If you click on the green box that says, "I Am an Ally For Consanguineous Lovers", you will read this lovely statement:

I support the rights of an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, or religion to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with ANY and ALL consenting adults, without prosecution, bullying, or discrimination. And yes, I do mean "any." - See more at: http://fullmarriageequality.tumblr.com/post/80899448224/i-am-an-ally-for-consanguineous-lovers#sthash.19wa9PRv.dpuf

I'm sure you will not find much support around here for incestuous relationships betweeen siblings, or parents/children. 

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I agree 100% with Serendipity, somebody actually made a post on here about having a Daughter/Father sexual relationship and LadyC didn't approve of it either. Definitely ruin any chance of a Father & daughter relationship in the future (no father figure) i guess in her life.

I honestly don't think anyone would support that kind of relationship (intimate) on here, me included.

nessa76

The post was made by Masquerade.

http://www.cousincouples.com/forum/index.php?topic=7438.0

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I'm sure you have received requests from media outlets in the past, so I want to assure you that our documentary is in favor of cousin marriage, cousin couples, and love in general - we would never have gained KC's stamp of approval otherwise. :rolleyes:

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james, we're not questioning your support for cousin marriages.

we're just not interested in being lumped in with your support for incestuous relationships between consenting adult siblings, parent/child, and so forth. kc was unaware of your support for those other relationships at the time he gave his stamp of approval. the email correspondence he received asking to be allowed to post here didn't include that information. his opinion has been revised.

if you'll scroll up, you'll see where he revised it. here, i'll just quote him for you.

Ahhh I didn't read all of that page. The email didn't mention any of this  :embarrassed:

I think it would be better just to keep the media out of here. Nobody seems to be interested anyway. The novelty has worn thin around here.

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and why target filipino cousins? 

In my experience (working at a tv station) all medias are mostly interested in ratings.  So spare us the 'blarney" please.

Nattana

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kc is a man, not a woman.

i was looking over your tumbler page. most of it i could appreciate. but this gave me pause:

cousin relationships are not incestuous. consanguineous, yes, but not incestuous.

i'm not really sure i'm too enthusiastic about encouraging people to contact a show that wants to talk to people who want to share 'eroticism', who have 'hooked up, experimented, had 3somes, or have been swingers' with a 'cousin, sibling, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, parent, grandparent, adult child or grandchild.

I know this post is very old, but I am wondering why you say this. Can you elaborate? I am just confused as to why you don't consider cousin marriage to be incestuous? Google defines incest as "sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other" and in much of the world, cousins do fit this definition and face jail sentences of 10 years or more (in many US states) just like any other "incestuous" couple.

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according to nearly every world religion's definition, according to medical definition, and according to NEARLY EVERY country's laws, cousin marriage is not incest. if you really want more info, exit the forum and view our legal information pages. there you will find that very few countries define cousin marriage as incest. even in the US where half of the states forbid first cousins to marry, many of those same states do not define sexual relations as incestuous. it's quite absurd, really. what is their point of forbidding a marriage if it isn't classified under incest laws? anyway, of those states (and countries) that do define it as incestuous, (and those are the minority of locations), the classification applies almost exclusively to first cousins... occasionally to first cousins once removed, but never ever applies to 2nd cousins or more distantly related.

seriously, google should not be your dictionary. it only gives a very tiny portion of information and is quite often based on algorithms... meaning the popularity of what is being said on websites and message boards and so on. when you want information of this kind of it's better to look at credible sources. ours is a credible source of information because we've acquired the information directly from the legal statutes for each state and for many countries, and from medical journals and genetics experts and so on. we take a great deal of care in our research and cite our sources.

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I guess what I am ultimately wondering is why any country has the power to legislate people's sex/ marital lives, and why you are subscribing to that despite being married to your cousin. I mean no disrespect here, I just want to pick your brain a little. You obviously agree that cousins should be allowed to marry, but why not more closely related people? I know those relationships are more widely accepted as incest, but do you think incest laws should exist? And if so, why?

(And, I know google should not be my dictionary, I was only using it as a baseline of definition. I guess I never really had a reason to look into the laws more, my cousin and I are already married in our state.)

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according to nearly every world religion's definition, according to medical definition, and according to NEARLY EVERY country's laws, cousin marriage is not incest. if you really want more info, exit the forum and view our legal information pages. there you will find that very few countries define cousin marriage as incest. even in the US where half of the states forbid first cousins to marry, many of those same states do not define sexual relations as incestuous. it's quite absurd, really. what is their point of forbidding a marriage if it isn't classified under incest laws? anyway, of those states (and countries) that do define it as incestuous, (and those are the minority of locations), the classification applies almost exclusively to first cousins... occasionally to first cousins once removed, but never ever applies to 2nd cousins or more distantly related.

seriously, google should not be your dictionary. it only gives a very tiny portion of information and is quite often based on algorithms... meaning the popularity of what is being said on websites and message boards and so on. when you want information of this kind of it's better to look at credible sources. ours is a credible source of information because we've acquired the information directly from the legal statutes for each state and for many countries, and from medical journals and genetics experts and so on. we take a great deal of care in our research and cite our sources.

 

strawberrymilk,

As a mod, I'll pipe in as well. Members cannot see it, but search engine spiders are crawling all over this place all the time. As I type this, there are 2 Google spiders, 2 Yahoo spiders, and 14 Baidu spiders in here. The difference in the actual facts and what will pop up on a Google search is about the same as Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica. Actually, Wikipedia is probably more accurate factually than Google, and certainly more factual than anything I've ever seen on Yahoo Answers. With the right search terms though, and all the spiders, Google does tend to lead one here rather quickly.

I found this place from the old &T (TOTSE) board. There was a young guy who started a thread in the "Love & Relationships" category, stating that he had a thing for his cousin. As you can imagine, he was set upon with several replies to the effect of your post in this thread, as well as being thrashed about the head and shoulders by others who were not so nice, who's "education" on the topic came from their Grandma, Yahoo, and the "infant" at the time, Google. Fortunately for him, there were several extremely intelligent individuals on that board, and in rather short order, they came in with links to GSA, here, and IIRC, a link to one of the studies noted on the "Genetics" page in the main page menu here. At the time, before :insert other 'dangerous' website: and some of the others we have now, that board was considered to be very close to the top of the list of, if not THE "most dangerous" websites on the web. The "Information" thread had absolute TONNAGE of information on every topic imaginable. Most of it from very reliable sources, linked and footnoted, and much of it from various university databases. There was everything from how to change a diaper to how to build a bomb.

At any rate, I meandered in here off and on for several months lurking before I joined, as it was relative (no pun intended) to my interests. I like to think that at least sober, I'm a reasonably smart guy. I did get quite the education though when I found myself looking through the facts on the main page of this site. I had always, like you, ass-u-me-d all the "old wives tales" of kids with extra toes and such were factual. Hell, Grandma told me. She wouldn't lie would she? Well, no. She just didn't have the facts. It certainly didn't help that there were a brother and sister here in this town who were quite severely mentally, how can I put this nicely,,,,,, not all there. I never had any interaction with the sister, as she never left the house so far as I know, but the brother was well known and much loved in town for his work ethic and fanatical love of sports. So, one time I ask my Mom "Mom, what exactly is _____'s problem?" She said "Well, it just happens he's that way because his Mom and Dad are cousins." OK, but, I still don't know exactly what his problem was, or if it was even related (again, no pun) to his parents being cousins. It was everyone's assumption at the time, so, that's what we were told. Looking at the list of conditions that are related to cousins being couples, I don't immediately see one as jumping out to fit his "symptoms", and rather think it was something more in the line of autism or some such, and it just so happened to run in the line, and THEREFORE, showed up in them as a result, such as would be the case with two unrelated people who both happened to have such a tendency in each of their lines. And again, I'm not totally sure, because no one had a straight answer. Who ever heard of autism back then either? I hadn't. And, the jury is certainly still out on just exactly what does cause autism. Looking back though, he certainly seemed to be on the spectrum. Physically, he was pretty much normal, and he seemed "slower" than he was, until you got to know him. He could be pretty perceptive. He knew if someone was pulling his chain, and would play along just long enough to hand it back to them. But, 45 years ago, there was nowhere near the research that has been done since, and certainly no Google, Yahoo, or probably even beginnings of an internet. So, the old assumptions held. As you have seen by a cursory search, to a great degree, they still do. But, now, this site is here on the net, and it's main purpose is to educate. Feel free to take advantage of the information freely disseminated here. I'm glad I did, and educated myself. Too bad this wasn't here sooner, but, it is now....  Oh, and now, there's 3 Google spiders, 1 Yahoo, and 10 Baidu.   

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strawberrymilk,

As a mod, I'll pipe in as well. Members cannot see it, but search engine spiders are crawling all over this place all the time. As I type this, there are 2 Google spiders, 2 Yahoo spiders, and 14 Baidu spiders in here. The difference in the actual facts and what will pop up on a Google search is about the same as Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica. Actually, Wikipedia is probably more accurate factually than Google, and certainly more factual than anything I've ever seen on Yahoo Answers. With the right search terms though, and all the spiders, Google does tend to lead one here rather quickly.

I found this place from the old &T (TOTSE) board. There was a young guy who started a thread in the "Love & Relationships" category, stating that he had a thing for his cousin. As you can imagine, he was set upon with several replies to the effect of your post in this thread, as well as being thrashed about the head and shoulders by others who were not so nice, who's "education" on the topic came from their Grandma, Yahoo, and the "infant" at the time, Google. Fortunately for him, there were several extremely intelligent individuals on that board, and in rather short order, they came in with links to GSA, here, and IIRC, a link to one of the studies noted on the "Genetics" page in the main page menu here. At the time, before :insert other 'dangerous' website: and some of the others we have now, that board was considered to be very close to the top of the list of, if not THE "most dangerous" websites on the web. The "Information" thread had absolute TONNAGE of information on every topic imaginable. Most of it from very reliable sources, linked and footnoted, and much of it from various university databases. There was everything from how to change a diaper to how to build a bomb.

At any rate, I meandered in here off and on for several months lurking before I joined, as it was relative (no pun intended) to my interests. I like to think that at least sober, I'm a reasonably smart guy. I did get quite the education though when I found myself looking through the facts on the main page of this site. I had always, like you, ass-u-me-d all the "old wives tales" of kids with extra toes and such were factual. Hell, Grandma told me. She wouldn't lie would she? Well, no. She just didn't have the facts. It certainly didn't help that there were a brother and sister here in this town who were quite severely mentally, how can I put this nicely,,,,,, not all there. I never had any interaction with the sister, as she never left the house so far as I know, but the brother was well known and much loved in town for his work ethic and fanatical love of sports. So, one time I ask my Mom "Mom, what exactly is _____'s problem?" She said "Well, it just happens he's that way because his Mom and Dad are cousins." OK, but, I still don't know exactly what his problem was, or if it was even related (again, no pun) to his parents being cousins. It was everyone's assumption at the time, so, that's what we were told. Looking at the list of conditions that are related to cousins being couples, I don't immediately see one as jumping out to fit his "symptoms", and rather think it was something more in the line of autism or some such, and it just so happened to run in the line, and THEREFORE, showed up in them as a result, such as would be the case with two unrelated people who both happened to have such a tendency in each of their lines. And again, I'm not totally sure, because no one had a straight answer. Who ever heard of autism back then either? I hadn't. And, the jury is certainly still out on just exactly what does cause autism. Looking back though, he certainly seemed to be on the spectrum. Physically, he was pretty much normal, and he seemed "slower" than he was, until you got to know him. He could be pretty perceptive. He knew if someone was pulling his chain, and would play along just long enough to hand it back to them. But, 45 years ago, there was nowhere near the research that has been done since, and certainly no Google, Yahoo, or probably even beginnings of an internet. So, the old assumptions held. As you have seen by a cursory search, to a great degree, they still do. But, now, this site is here on the net, and it's main purpose is to educate. Feel free to take advantage of the information freely disseminated here. I'm glad I did, and educated myself. Too bad this wasn't here sooner, but, it is now....  Oh, and now, there's 3 Google spiders, 1 Yahoo, and 10 Baidu.   

I am by no means an expert on genetics or cousin marriages or anything else, but I agree with everything you said, there are far too many misconceptions about cousin marriages, due in large part to the stories and lessons people hear from their proverbial grandmothers as they are growing up, and then they in turn perpetuate those rumors.

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my personal reasons for believing more closely related people should not marry or be sexually active is very simple. i believe in the Bible. i believe God's laws are moral absolutes. God does not forbid cousin marriage, but does forbid more closely related individuals.

i'm not expecting everybody else to agree with my views, but those are mine. now, do i believe government should legislate morality? i'd say government has ALWAYS legislated morality. murder is illegal. do you think it shouldn't be? stealing is illegal. shouldn't it be? rape, human trafficking, animal cruelty. all those are illegal. they are also immoral, wouldn't you say?

the thing is, on whose authority is something defined as moral or immoral? that used to be clear. it no longer is. and that's why our world is going to hell in a bucket.

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Since we've seen this, I am going to redact a couple things in my post, before the spiders find it, and we perhaps have an influx such as we've had before. I may have to modify your quote as well strawberry, if it doesn't change with my actions. I became a mod here as a sort of junkyard dog, eating spam and banhammering trolls. I'd be remiss if I let stand more work for myself.....

BRB

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i'm not expecting everybody else to agree with my views, but those are mine. now, do i believe government should legislate morality? i'd say government has ALWAYS legislated morality. murder is illegal. do you think it shouldn't be? stealing is illegal. shouldn't it be? rape, human trafficking, animal cruelty. all those are illegal. they are also immoral, wouldn't you say?

I'm not a lawyer, and I am not otherwise very educated on law, but it seems that the things you mentioned are all crimes because they affect other people. Rape, murder, theft, animal cruelty are all illegal (and should be) because they hurt OTHER people/animals, who are not consenting to being murdered or stolen from or raped (duh). But, to me, it doesn't make sense to have laws against things that affect no one other than those on the inside, like adult, consenting siblings getting married. And therefore, I wouldn't necessarily agree that those laws reflect morality, only that they restrict people from harming others.

I guess where we really disagree is when religion gets thrown into the mix, and neither of us is going to change the other's mind...

Thank you for humoring me, I appreciate your replies.

To Hawk, you can delete or otherwise modify my comment as you see fit. (Not that you need my say-so)

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As far as full marriage equality among consenting adults, some of it is going to be outside my comfort zone, I won't lie. But again, if there is a God, and I believe there is a God, then it's going to be quite a bit over my pay grade to be judging. If there is, I'm sure I'll have enough of my own shenanigans to answer for to be too busy worrying about anybody else. Unless it DOES get into my pay grade with some progeny I'm supporting, when the science does generally fall outside virtually everyone's comfort zone, then yeah, that I'll have a major issue with. The adult siblings is testing the edge. I have seen that as well, I honestly believe. There was an elderly couple who lived across the street when we were growing up, and I'm pretty sure they were still there when Cuz and them moved a couple doors up from them. They were siblings. Neither had ever married. They had lived together as long as I knew them, and apparently for quite some time before that, possibly forever. Being of our grandparents' generation, there was never any hint of anything funny going on. No PDA's for sure. But, there were very few of those out of that generation anyhow. Nobody certainly EVER mentioned any sort of suspicions they may have had. I did find the whole thing odd though, and do believe there was just a LITTLE more going on than met the eye. Could anybody prove it, no. They kept up appearances enough that nobody wanted to think about it I suppose. She would berate him mildly on occasion, like a wife of that generation, and he'd giggle and say "Aww, go on back in the house." If NOT a couple, they were certainly a pair. LMAO

Then, there's the fact that Cuz and I, (and her Sis and my brothers) were very close as kids, once they moved here. And we're 2nd cousins. But, for several years, we spent enough time together we considered each other "practical" siblings. We consider them the sisters we never had, and they consider us the brothers they never had to this day. My Mom loves those girls like daughters, and her Mom loves us like she would her own sons. I guess that's why it was too hard for Cuz to try to wrap her head around. Once we were in the moment, it was so intense, we didn't really think about it. But when we did take a good (sober, LOL) look around after the better part of two weeks, she couldn't fully wrap her head around it. Back then, with no information to go on, we went on the feelings, and the feelings were too much. I would have went for it, but I didn't want to push her out of HER comfort zone, so, we walked away. I do certainly understand how one thing leads to another, and in short order, you're in that deep with someone that close. It wasn't something we planned, and we're agreed, it isn't something we regret. We're also agreed that it won't be repeated. One of the moral absolutes we do agree on is not cheating on our SO's with each other.     

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I agree, if there is a god, it is no business of ours to judge other people... which is why I think that all consenting adults should be able to marry whomever they please without ridicule.

I agree that some of it may be a little freaky and out of my personal comfort zone (even the cousins thing is sometimes too much for me)... It is, after all, instilled in us practically from the time we are born that "incest is wrong and icky"... but that is no reason to stop them from marrying. People used to (and still do) say the same things about interracial marriages and gay marriages, that it's icky and wrong. But those marriages are (and should be) legal. Just because some people (or even most people) don't find a certain sex act or type of marriage to be appealing doesn't mean that it should be illegal, because peoples preferences vary so widely. For every sex act, there are a bunch of people who find it repulsive. Even the most "normal", vanilla, heterosexual, monogamous, etc, kind of sex is going to sound gross to someone. Does that mean it should be illegal? Hell no! People in monogamous heterosexual relationships aren't hurting anyone, and they are happy. And I think that same logic can and should be applied to cosanguinamorous (incestuous) couples, no matter how closely related they are. 

If adults are in love, and they aren't hurting anyone, is it really fair or even reasonable to condemn their relationship? With harsh jail sentences, no less? Should it really be a felony to have sex with one's adult, consenting sibling, while creepy old men who molest their infant children go free (free to ruin other people's lives)? Just thinking about that makes me want to cry.

I didn't mean to go on a tirade, but I had to get that out.

And yes, I frown in the general direction of cheating. I avoid it whenever possible. lol. To me as wel, that is a moral absolute, do not betray the person I love most in the world. Luckily for me, that person was also my cousin, and he went for it, and we have been married for 4 years now, the best 4 years of my life. :)

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strawberrymilk,

I had quite a bit more in that post, and pared it back. I do define some of these relationships as incest, and out of my comfort zone, but, I do NOT consider cousins among them, based on the generally accepted HISTORIC precedent, and the generally accepted CURRENT genetic data. Which, considering the Old Testament as the historical part, and the current science as the modern understanding is how I come to my definition. I have no delusion of grandeur as to think my definition shall be the final word to anyone else. Part of what I pared back was on the risk of birth defects of the type in question being roughly equal to the risk an older (~35-40 yr old) mother would face. You'll NEVER see ANY politician who wants to be taken seriously on any other topic EVER suggest preventing a woman of that age from reproducing. But, the percentages are the same, FOR FIRST COUSINS. Now, irrespective of the morality or lack thereof of anything closer than that, I'd have to go back and look at the increased risks involved. It IS however generally accepted that the increased risks involved ARE scientifically inadvisable.

An example which has come to the fore on at least a couple occasions here, is that of the uncle/niece relationship. Legally, it is generally, and almost universally prohibited, there are a few places and circumstances where it is allowed. With the majority of us here being of the Christian persuasion, going by the strict interpretation of the Old Testament, which our religious stance is based upon, we would be hypocritical to outright dismiss it out of hand on those grounds alone, so, we don't. However, with the current knowledge of genetics being what they are, we WILL advise against it, even though we realize it isn't prohibited outright. So, in my book, it isn't my cup of tea, but it isn't prohibited in the list we follow, so, to each their own. BUT, have a plan for the possible eventuality that any offspring have issues, because having mentioned the increased risk, it's going to be WAY out of my comfort zone to see my hard earned dollars going to care for the little nipper. Of course, maybe I'm odd in thinking if you can't afford them, don't have them to begin with, no matter WHAT the relation or lack thereof. Just the way I see it. And, if the uncle/niece relationship is allowed, is it purely misogynistic to not allow the aunt/nephew relationship? Personally, I think it is, even though it is in the same sort of "uncomfortable" zone as the former.

By the same token, gay marriage is out of my comfort zone. Being hetero, I just don't get it. But then again, who's asking me, or needs my permission. As of now, they've been given permission, and far be it from me to interfere. I've been married and divorced 3 times now. I'll not say I won't marry again, because I currently have as good a woman as I've ever been with. And back in the day, I was a dog. I've "known" a few, OK? Cuz and maybe one other were in the same league. We're already seeing gay divorces, and, if they'da asked me, I could have told them "Be careful what you ask for."

Which goes to a point I would make to closer consanguineous marriages. We regularly mention here, that, if you're going to go into a cousin marriage, you'd better be all in for the long haul. You can divorce your "husband" but you can't divorce your family. How much more so would this be an issue between for example, siblings? Oh my. Really? Ok, be careful what you ask for.....

A lot of this goes to where my opinion is on this, and I had went into some of this before paring it back. These things were given in the Old Testament minutia of the law, and not directly put into the 10 Commandments. It's 10, not 17 or whatever the number would be. I liken it to some of the other minutia. For example, the prohibition on sleeping with a woman, and her mother (or daughter). It says don't do it because it is "confusion." No doubt!!!. Same with taking sisters as wives while the first one to be a wife is alive. It doesn't come right out and say you're going to burn for it, but, the sisters I know, you'd rather burn than deal with them both at the same time, LMAO. If you could pull it off, you're a better man, (or dare I now say woman  :shocked: ) than I. It doesn't take long to realize the order of things,as well as the roles, can get REAL confused.

Also, there are already places where, though they cannot marry, and be open about a relationship, consenting adult closer relatives can have a consenting adult relationship. I recently mentioned in another thread that I am in the same State as the OP in that thread. So, out of respect for his anonymity, I'll not so soon mention this State in this thread. It's out there in previous posts of mine, so if someone really has to know, they can look. At any rate, Rhode Island has no criminal incest statute per se. Ohio and the State I'm in have quietly stopped prosecuting consenting adults in such relationships. I think there is at least one other State which is at the same point, but which one it is, I'd have to try to remember where I saw it. I know it was when I was digging through the statutes for the States within a year or so ago when I dug in a little to find out which States in which first cousins are considered criminal incest. There aren't many, but there are more than I originally thought. In that process, I found a sort of "Oh, by the way" kinda thing that said "These States are quietly not prosecuting any incest cases, and Rhode Island has no incest statute" kind of blurb.   

I would encourage you to at the very least, start by not letting the cousin relationship be too much for you. If you're married to your cousin for four years now, I would hope you would give your relationship the courtesy you would like to see for these other relationships first. Though I, like most people do have a definition of incest, just because society has lumped cousins in there over the last 150 years or so, that isn't enough to make it so, especially when it was done based on overblown and faulty "science" of the day. If you think the stigma here is bad, go have a look at one of the "India" threads, and look at the nuclear meltdown their families there have. WOW.

Speaking of which, did you have a bunch of drama out of family when the two of you got together?

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Yes, that is generally accepted, but that doesn't mean it's true. Closely-related couples wanting to have a child need to see a genetic counselor, even cousins. (In a perfect world, every person having a child would see a genetic counselor) The risk of birth defects isn't 4% between ALL first cousins, that is only an average. For some, the risk may be 50%, or it could be lower than the average between un-related couples... Hence the need for genetic counseling. This is the same for siblings and parent/offspring etc couples. If they want to have kids, it is in everyone's best interest for them to get genetic counseling, and then decide if the risk of complications is worth it to them. The risk of birth defect between a specific pair of siblings (etc) could be less than the average between un-related couples... in that case would it be fair to stop them from having children?

Also, if part of the reason these marriages are illegal is the risk of birth defects, wouldn't it also be better to restrict women over 40 from having kids? Or people with Tay Sachs? Or people with Huntingtons? I think many (if not most) people would agree that that would be cruel and unusual. 

Yes, I agree, if you don't have the money for a child, don't get pregnant (of course this is not always avoidable, because lots of teens are having sex before they are even out of their parent's homes, and they have no idea how to use contraception... but in a perfect world, people would have the means to care for a child before they have one).

Gay marriage is not out of my personal comfort zone, but I can see how it would be out of yours. Butt stuff is gross, mkay? But, I have plenty of gay friends who absolutely abhor hetero sex. That does not mean it should be illegal.

I find the "you can't divorce your family" argument to be a moot point. All relationships have the potential to end badly, not just consanguineous ones. Perhaps if a person who is married to another person can't end a relationship in a civil, calm, respectable way, they shouldn't have married ANYONE. All kinds of people end their relationships badly, it is not simply a problem of  consanguineous people. I agree that siblings/cousins/etc should be careful when entering a marriage or relationship because if it ends badly, the effects could be much worse than if it were between unrelated people. But is that anyone else's business? Shouldn't that be their choice to make?

I am not religious at all, so I will try not to offend too much, but doesn't the old testament say all sorts of weird things? Like, don't wear mixed fabrics and don't eat shellfish or pork? Perhaps the bible should not be used in making laws, hence the separation of church and state. I live in the US, which is not a Christian nation, contrary to popular belief. We have no official national religion and we are not a theocracy.

I know that in some places, incest is not a crime and in others it is not really upheld... But that doesn't change the fact that these people can't legally be married in about half of US states and much of the rest of the world, and I think they should be able to.

On a purely emotional level, there are lots of things that I am not comfortable with, but that does not mean that I think it should be illegal. I am uncomfortable with people having dogs in their houses, they're gross and they are basically tiny poo factories... should it be illegal for people to have pets? No.

I grew up in a very rural, very backwater part of the states, and as a result of that, I sometimes find myself thinking somewhat racist things... Or, I will cross the street if I see a black man walking towards me for no other reason than that he is black. I don't even do it consciously, it is a product of the prejudice that was ingrained in me from the first 18 years of my life. It would have been nearly impossible to escape... But that does not mean that I hate black people, I am not afraid of them or anything like that. I was conditioned to behave that way. I am fighting it, but there is some racism left in me... The same goes for cousin marriages, people all my life told me that only stupid, inferior people married their cousins, but that obviously is not true.

No one outside of my family got dramatic about it, because I didn't tell anyone. My mother found out that we were having relations and she reacted very badly... so badly that I do not talk to her anymore. He and I moved out of state and got married, and we never told anyone we are cousins. But, we are very very happy now, we are getting our lives just the way we want them and I think we are going to be together til death do us part. I don't have a big enough problem with the fact that we are cousins to even consider leaving him. We are too perfect for each other.

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